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Australian builders beware

P

Platyius

Member
I have new finished my RV-12 except for painting the cowl and final assembly at the airport and it seems this all has been the easy part , the hard part is getting the little bird registered.
One problem has been because I purchased my engine in Australia Van?s will not give me the documentation but sent it to RA Aus which should be ok except I need a copy of the Pilot Operating Handbook and Maintenance Manual which I thought I could get from RA Aus but because it came over in paper form, Steve Bell at RA Aus could not spare the time making a copy for me.
The other problem is Steve Bell at RA Aus has asked Van?s for their Australian Rep and Vans have not replied. Steve Bell also claims the RV-12?s being registered in the US do not have LSA certification as he claims 4 need to be built in the factory, or some such thing.
So you can see registration in Australia is not plain sailing, I hope RA Aus can work out with Van?s what category these aircraft fit in Australia. If all else fails it will have to be Armature Experimental

Tony Earle
 
Not sure about RA-Aus ...

I find it hard to believe that Vans would not provide you a copy for a fair price?

Doug Gray
 
Van's policy

I think Van made it clear that all RV-12 components must be purchased thru Vans in order to ensure compliance with the standards. Others on this forum have already complained about having to purchase GPSs from Vans even tho they already owned the exact same model.

Compliance, or marketing: who knows?
 
Tony, sorry to hear about your woes. Been watching your blog, and you are almost there. I am going down the other path with VH rego, and will be buying all through Van's. Even so I'm still a bit nervous about how it will all go. Good luck. Once you get flying, I will try to get up and say G'day.. .Marcus.:confused:
 
Experimental in Oz

I too, will be purchasing all from Vans. I have been assured by the SAAA (today) that there will be no problem registering an RV-12 under their Experimental category. That's why I will be VH registering.

Hope you can sort out LSA registration with RAAus Tony.

Cheers
Alan
#120047

Wings 80%
Emp Not started
Fuse Not started
 
This is one reason I have laid off ordering a kit as I wanted to know how we stand in Oz for RAA Rego ..! I want to get away from the VH rego & PPL licences etc.. Will be pleased to here any udates Guys.
 
Tony,

I was wondering if we would have any problems. Hopefully Steve will sought it all out and I certainly hope it will fall under LSA or similar.

Best of luck.


Wings complete.
Started Emp.
 
Would you be able to have it as experimental and then later convert it to any type you wish when you got all the needed papers? You might get airborne sooner...
 
Talked to Steve yesterday

Steve explained to me that he had very little wriggle room when it came to the RV-12 in Aus. The main points I got from him were, (and I hope I get this right):
The E-LSA aircraft catagory in Australia follows the same rules as in all countries that have adopted it.

The EAA and he have both examined the RV12 build process and there is no way that it qualifies for the 51% rule. Possibly 70% is done by the factory. So if you build it to the plans it will never be an amateur built experimental in Australia.

RAAus inspectors cannot approve it to fly. It must get a C of A from a CASA approved inspector. Currently that is rumoured to cost $2K.

Once the aircraft has it's C of A , it can be registered by RAAus as a 19xxxx aircraft.

From Steves point of view, it doesnt matter where you buy the engine. You would still be eligible to have the plane inspected by an Aussie inspector for C of A.

You cant beat the system by registering it as a sub-544 kg ultralight, because the build doesn't qualify for the 51% rule.

Once you have the CofA, and RAAus registration, an RAAus pilot certificate holder can fly it. So can a GA pilot. The RAAus pilot cannot access controlled airspace, but a GA pilot can, using the installed A/Cmode transponder.

The cost of the Cof A inspection is up to the blokes that do it. With more people getting approved that might come down.

Once the aircraft is RAAus registered the owner will be able to do the maintenance, under his RAAus Level 1 authority

I'm not happy about the process, but I see Steve's situation. I will be able to fly my aircraft as I planned. I see value in buying the whole Vans kit, and the support of their E-LSA project is extraordinary.
Rod
 
Talked to Steve yesterday

Steve explained to me that he had very little wriggle room when it came to the RV-12 in Aus. The main points I got from him were, (and I hope I get this right):
The E-LSA aircraft catagory in Australia follows the same rules as in all countries that have adopted it.

The EAA and he have both examined the RV12 build process and there is no way that it qualifies for the 51% rule. Possibly 70% is done by the factory. So if you build it to the plans it will never be an amateur built experimental in Australia.

RAAus inspectors cannot approve it to fly. It must get a C of A from a CASA approved inspector. Currently that is rumoured to cost $2K.

Once the aircraft has it's C of A , it can be registered by RAAus as a 19xxxx aircraft.

From Steves point of view, it doesnt matter where you buy the engine. You would still be eligible to have the plane inspected by an Aussie inspector for C of A.

You cant beat the system by registering it as a sub-544 kg ultralight, because the build doesn't qualify for the 51% rule.

Once you have the CofA, and RAAus registration, an RAAus pilot certificate holder can fly it. So can a GA pilot. The RAAus pilot cannot access controlled airspace, but a GA pilot can, using the installed A/Cmode transponder.

The cost of the Cof A inspection is up to the blokes that do it. With more people getting approved that might come down.

Once the aircraft is RAAus registered the owner will be able to do the maintenance, under his RAAus Level 1 authority

I'm not happy about the process, but I see Steve's situation. I will be able to fly my aircraft as I planned. I see value in buying the whole Vans kit, and the support of their E-LSA project is extraordinary.
Rod
 
Thanks Rod, That lays it out quite neatly. I will be going "VH" via SAAA, while I still have a valid PPL/medical. At a later date I can transfer it to RAAus if I need to. Thanks for sharing the info, Marcus.
 
Hi Steve

I have built several aircraft under the 51% rule such as the Allegro and Zepher and if the rv12 does not come under the 51% then somethings wrong.Can anyone tell me who determined that it was 70% because i built the other aircraft in half the time it is taking me to build this one.Regards Brian.
 
Have spoken to Steve bell at RAA as well sounds like hes right into the RV 12 dedate with both CASA (Civil Aviation) & Vans over the Building & Licenceing dedate hes even assiting Vans with LSA Certification so given time all will be resolved to our advantage ..!! I feel safe in ordering a kit myself now with the AUD sliding the right way for us! Cheers John.
 
I have now Spoken to Gary Spicer Tech director of SAAA and he says there is no probs building & rego with SAAA.! They also hope to have a Recreational Pilots Licence (Arla the RAA licence type) up and running within the next few months. This is a self medical declearing licence that enables U to fly VH rego aircaft with restrictions of coarse.! Like no Tower airspace flying with out a currant PPL medical etc. Sounds good for the RV12 & Pilot to me..!
 
saying the factory does 70% of the work and based on our 30% taking about 800 to 900 hours means that the factory has done 1800 to 2100 hours of work
all for about $20000 usd
doesnt add up to me
 
51%

Yeah I think they have to sort that one out for sure ..!! SAAA don't sem to havea problem with it tho!
 
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