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At what height should I store my assembled Empennage?

D

drewhottub

Active Member
VAF Team,

I want to build a table to store my assembled Empennage on. At what height, ought I build the table so that when I complete the fuselage in a couple of years, and it is sitting on its landing gear, the empennage would approximately marry to the fuselage (height-wise)?

Basically, my goal is to store my assembled empennage on a table that has free castering wheels. My hope is to one day roll the empennage over to the assembled fuselage, and easily connect it, with minimal adjustment of table heights.

In other words I want to strategically build this moveable table!

Let me know if you're willing to help, would you?

Ideally my answer would come from someone who has a completed aircraft, and could easily just go out and measure the height from the ground to the forward point of the tail cone, where it merry's to the main fuselage.
cone%20height.jpg


Best Regards,

Andrew Boyd
 
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drewhottub said:
Ideally my answer would come from someone who has a completed aircraft, and could easily just go out and measure the height from the ground to the forward point of the tail cone, where it merry's to the main fuselage.
Click to expand...

There's a ton of work to do on the fuselage after attaching the tailcone, and that work is easier with the fuselage on a stand (i.e. before attaching the landing gear), so I wouldn't recommend doing what you're describing.

I'd also recommend removing the stabilizers and control surfaces from the tailcone. It'll make it much easier to attach the tailcone and run wires, rudder cables, etc. If you do this, you can attach the tailcone easily in a few minutes, with a couple helpers.

An if you actually want an answer to your question, I can measure tonight.
-Rob
 
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This seems like a big waste of floor space, why not hang it on the wall from a couple of nails??? Or, up in the rafters if you have an open ceiling?

I kept mine in the wing cradle till I needed it, nested with one of the wings, but then at this stage most folks probably do not have a wing cradle yet.
 
I agree that it would be overkill to spend time on a temporary table like that. You need the fuselage sitting low enough so your waist is above the longeron at the door opening. That way you can just bend you waist to work inside.
The tail can be put on at any height with a couple of helpers. The riveter will be laying on the floor and the bucker needs to be able to reach in, so don't get it too high that the bucker needs a ladder.
I initially used a couple of pallets stacked together with wheels on the bottom. Worked out fine, but I later changed it to bolted 2x4s on the wing spars with wheels on the bottom at the height I mentioned. Easier to wheel around and the "legs" bolted to the spars could be adjusted. Sorry, no good photos.

John
 
Lift table

here is what I used.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-motorcycle-lift-91764.html
I built the fuselage on that table and the great part, it is movable.
having the fuse supported in the middle allows you to install the gear legs
without interference.
As to your plans to store the tail section, take Mike's advice.
It is often the case at least with me that I don't have anybody around when I need help. That hydraulic table makes up for 2 helpers, at least when it comes to lifting and fitting heavy parts.
 
Just don't make the same mistake I made if you hang it from a wall or ceiling. I used some cheap ratchet straps from Harbor Freight and hung them from the ceiling in my shop. The parts were 8 feet off the ground. Sun came in through a window and degraded the straps. One morning when I came in the shop the horizontal stabilizer was lying on the concrete all dented up from the fall. You could take your bare hands and pull the strap material apart easily.
DSCN2102.JPG
 
Jim,

Great advice on the straps!

Also, I'm really sorry to hear what happened with your HS falling.

-Andrew
 
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Also, if someone were willing to just go and measure their plane that would be really helpful.

I'm lucky enough to have access to free storage over the next 4 years, so I AM planning on wasting space, because then I won't have to disassemble and reassemble the Empennage, multiple times, this way.

Maybe as I build on, I'll learn that this plan isn't so great, but with a free/ secured hangar at my disposal, room is no object for the foreseable future.

Regards,

Andrew
 
Dont forget if you get the height of the installed stab, it will be around 4" lower than what you need to have to clear the mounting tabs.

Installing the stab is a piece of cake, mine was on and off at least 5 times, probably closer to 10.

I only use a couple of bolts, and non lock washers when test fitting the stab----or temp installation for another part fitting, fiberglass fairing ETC.

Build on!!
 
Mike,

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Basically I'm looking for the dimension shown below.

cone%20height.jpg



Best Regards,

Andrew
 
Andrew----------your drawing is very helpful, I, and I think others were misled by your use of the term "empennage"---which is the tail.

You are (at least seem to be) referring to the entire rear of the plane, as an assembly-----what Vans calls the "empecone"----the stuff in the first kit.

Makes a lot more sense now.

Considering that it seems to take a lot of jockeying around to get the fuse/cone joint to fit correctly, and all the various parts to line up where they belong, I would recommend against assembling it the way you are talking about. Much easier, I suspect, to do with the tail surfaces removed.

$.02
 
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Andrew,
I agree with everyone here. I would dis-assemble the Tail cone and store the parts separately. When you finish the fuse you will not want to put on the gear until after you attach the tail cone. This is the easiest way to get around the tail cone without obstuctions and to run your wiring and to work on ataching the cabin cover without the need for a ladder. The gear is the last thing you want to do and you should wait until the cabin cover, doors, instrument panel have been finalized. You should build a fuse stand that is high enough to slide under, but low enough to not require more than bending in to rivet the floor. To attach the tail cone you need a couple of Harbor Freight adjustable saw horses and a short bench type of saw horse that you can build after you get the hieght set on the fuse stand. Build this bench for the tail cone to sit on while you slide it forward on to the fuse. Check out www.mykitlog.com and look at mine and others stands
Have fun!
Bill
 
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If you have plenty of room

set in on some padded boards on the floor. Put caution tape around it and work on those wings. I strapped mine up with 2" nylon webbing to the 9'3" ceilings in my garage. Wife parked under it for 6 months. Then when it came time to connect to fuse I put it on a std work table, completed everything inside tailcone while it was well supported from underneath. Then set it down on some plywood boxes/couch cushions/towels/whatever to get it to align with fuse(With my wife helping). It does not set level and the height will all depend on your fuse support height. Mine happens to be about 12" off the floor. Worked out great. I use a short step stool to get in and out right now. Working on doors/windows. Will finish all interior/panel as much as possible before installing gear.

Sorry I could not answer your question either.

Boy section 45 is LONG!
 
All, thanks for all of your responses.

I'm still hoping someone can explicitely answer my question, short and sweet, with a dimension taken from a working/flying RV-10.

Again, I'm grateful to you all for your time.

These are all good points, and food for thought!

-Andrew
 
Ernst,

Thank you very much, for that dimension, and for going out of your way!

Also, VAF team, thank you very much for your advice.

As I'm putting together my plan of attack, I will consider all of these options.

It is nice to know that there are so many people out there willing to help.

Let me know if any of you guys need some piece of information from me!

I'm always up for knowledge sharing!

Thank you, again!



Best Regards,

Andrew
 
Ernst has the engine mounted, so the dimension is probably not accurate.

It is however close enough to give you something to work from.

At the stage of construction you are contemplating doing this, well, it is just not going to sit the same as a plane with the engine, tail, cover etc.

Good luck, hope it all works out for you.

Post some photos when you get the setup finished.
 
Mike,

I'll definitely post photo's.

Also, you may see me end up saying I'm going to follow the advice of those that have gone before me, and not even attempt this.

This forum is just allowing me to consider ALL options.

I am so grateful for this website, and the people, willing to contribute!

I'll post pics soon, on whatever decision I make!


Best Regards,

Andrew
 
Attaching Tailcone

I am finishing up the tailcone. The HS and VS, elevators, etc all finished.

Question: It looks like the directions say start assembling the tail. Can I skip this part and attach tailcone to fuselage, THEN assemble the HS, VS, etc? I have the QB fuselage.

Appologize for not digging this out from the directions.
 
Jack, yes you can do the hs and vs attach later. But you will be working on a ladder. Or you can fit them now, when access is easier, and then take them off (easy) and re-attach later. (still on a ladder, just not as much!)

Andrew, now you have the dimension, see how high everything will be. You may want to construct cat walks around the airframe!
 
It not that big of deal. I couldn't attach the hs or vs when I was working in the garage. The hs can be aligned while standing on the ground. Many of the vs related tasks do require a ladder, but was easy and straight forward. I finished both of these once I got to the hangar.
 
Having done something similar to what the OP is trying to do, I can say that that dimension is not important and that you DO NOT want to build a fixed table for joining the two sections. The reasons are 1) as someone pointed out, that dimension will be different depending on the W&B of the forward section and 2) the angle will vary slightly (and needs to anyway as you install the tail). When I joined mine, I used adjustable sawhorses with moving blankets under the tail cone at front and rear. Fine adjustments were made by moving the horses forward/aft. On initial approach, the cone was slightly high and angled back. I moved the forward section back and adjusted the sawhorses so that the tail dropped into position on the bottom skins, clecoed them, and then adjusted the tail angle to mate the sides, going slowly to make sure that everything mated correctly. Using the engine hoist to lift up the aft end helped a lot, too. I had initially tried to join the two sections straight on but it was impossible without extra help or arms to make sure all the skins, bulkheads, etc, mate up correctly. Just store the parts somewhere out of the way and put them in position when you're ready to mate them together. Without the tail surfaces on, the empty tail cone is fairly easy to move around.
 
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