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Anyone else had trouble with the doors?

blahphish

blahphish

Well Known Member
So I rushed on to VAF to search for "index holes" because mine wernt lining up and I just DREADED that I messed something up. How could this be?? I was so careful and I quadruple checked everything!!

It turns out no matter how many times you hear or read about the doors being a pain, it will still not prepare you for that panic moment when you actually get started on them and hit your first road block. :rolleyes:

There should seriously be a disclaimer in the manual in section 45. Lets get a list of possible disclaimers to send to VANS for a revision update to the plans. I'll start:

45-01A: "Its not you, its me."
45-01B: "Warning: Figure 1 is hypothetical."
45-01C: "Hey, it fits together great in AutoCAD."
45-01D: "Notice: In flight door loss is no accident."
 
blahphish said:
So I rushed on to VAF to search for "index holes" because mine wernt lining up and I just DREADED that I messed something up. How could this be?? I was so careful and I quadruple checked everything!!

It turns out no matter how many times you hear or read about the doors being a pain, it will still not prepare you for that panic moment when you actually get started on them and hit your first road block. :rolleyes:

There should seriously be a disclaimer in the manual in section 45. Lets get a list of possible disclaimers to send to VANS for a revision update to the plans. I'll start:

45-01A: "Its not you, its me."
45-01B: "Warning: Figure 1 is hypothetical."
45-01C: "Hey, it fits together great in AutoCAD."
45-01D: "Notice: In flight door loss is no accident."
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club!

From this point forward it will seem that the more difficult the task, the more vague the plans will be. You've got to use a lot of common sense and proceed slowly. It also helps to have another RV-10 builder nearby or on speed dial.
 
The whole fiberglass section sucks big time. It is the toughest of all, it's dusty, smelly, dirty ... well, you know. The instructions are not extremely clear. I suggest you look over other builders posts before you begin. If you are going to OSH, talk to everyone who has already done it, and get some suggestions.
 
I feel your pain - really. I'm the same place as you in the plans, and spent the last two days on doors, with big chunks of that time spent staring into space and scratching my head. Those index holes are worse than useless - they simply index a twist into the door. Sigh. At this rate, I'll be happy if the doors end up fitting just well enough to keep the kids and luggage inside the airplane and large birds outside.
 
Brian,

You are not alone. I agree that the whole glass section sucks.

Mine were not aligned either.the question is how to know which half is right? I found that it was much easier to put the inner shell in the opening only. Then crawl inside the plane and look at the edge. You will see it square up and be uniform around the edges (primarily the bottom edge). When you get there, tape it down and make new index holes.

Foe the outside, see if those holes match to begin with. If they don't then try only one of the holes and rotate the shell around that hole to see if it fits somewhere. If it doesn't try the other hole. I'd neither works, find the place where it fits best and make new index holes.

The doors are not like the rest of the kit. CNC punched kits spoiled us and set our expectations high. Once you get to the glass section all that stuff is out the windows and we are working in shades of gray. It's more artistic than science and that's what screw most metal airplane builders up. :D. At least that what I'm blaming it on because I'm still tweaking and tuning those doors........

Phil
 
Another vote for not putting much faith in the index holes. I think I used the ones towards the bottom of the door (more or less), but ignored the ones near the window.

-Rob
 
This is the only part of the 10 kit that was less than outstanding and it is much, much less. Index holes will work but hard to find. The entire door design needs help. If it were about 5 years later (retirement) I would consider re-designing and building after market doors for the 10 and fix the latch system at the same time. Get some help from a couple of 10 builders.\

Pat
 
Couple of things to watch out for with the doors.

The hinges are specific to their location, and I would suggest you study the plans a bit, play around with the hinges and see how they are setup, the curve of the cabin top makes the hinge line need to be off set in the hinge itself.

Get them all figured out, then mark left front, right front etc.

Other thing is to be sure the clocking of the gear rack and the pinon gear in the latch assembly is correct-----you need the maximum throw possible, and that requires that the gear rack is at the dead stop, when the door handle is at max open rotation.

Also, where the cross pin in the latch drops into the metal lock plate is a pretty minimum engagement, I excavated a small bit of the plastic bearing block for the pin to drop into, you only need a 1/16" or deep.

Good luck,
 
The doors are truly the low point of building the kit. It seems to be a test to see if you really want to finish.

Here are a couple of tools I made that you may find useful.

Edge Finder for transferring the edge of the door opening to the outside of the door prior to trimming.
edgefinder.jpg


Hole finder for drilling the holes for holding the door to the fuselage prior to gluing. Just bend stock sheet metal in half and drill a hole straight through. Then fill the inner hole with a rivet.
holefinder.jpg


This is in the Finish Kit section of my construction log if you are interested.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. If I get too frustrated I found this really good idea that might work out :D

redneck-car-window.jpg
 
I am really surprised that no one has come out with an after market alternative to these doors.

I am dreading that phase of the build:(
 
Make it fit

Its just not that bad.

I noticed that most after market parts are priced for the "upper" market.
I have not called Van's about anything on the RV-10 but if "make it fit "
is their answer, I would give you the same answer.
I do agree though, these doors where not the highlight of the building process.
 
131 hrs on Sec 45 from 3/7-4/17/11

Boy was I glad to get that section finished and now the next worst...wheel pants/gear leg fairings...don't worry it is not nearly as bad. But here are some notes that I made on the doors.

Order stronger gas struts from JWF Technologies 513-769-9611 p# 2218LP if you are going to have anything other than painted doors like mine. My standard Van's supplied struts barely hold them open. I am sure they will fall with age or on a windy day.

Locate blind holes 45-03 Step 1 with strap duplicator. Holes are 1/16"-3/8" off in step 2...use cleco edge clamps instead. Step 3 fwd and aft index holes did line up on mine. Also step 3...Inner shell to return flange gap on mine was 1/8"-1/2" but with McMaster Carr seals(1lb heavier than Van's and worth every penny) it did not matter.

After step 7 on P.45-04 you may want to install a doubler plate with #8 nutplates to mount a drawer pull to lower rear of door with #8 csk screws. I thought this would be nice to help pull door closed with a short leather strap and also for my kids to help my wife and I hold the doors slightly open during taxi for better ventilation. May come in handy if on climbout a pin is not engaged, but very difficult with a red led right in front of me and Sean's latch kit. Order Sean's kit now, you'll need it soon.

Pg 45-05 use a flashlight to aid in step 11. I trimmed right on the line here.
Step 12 also sand 45 deg bevel on cabin cover.
Stage 3 Get close with 90 deg die grinder with 3" flex sanding discs then use 10-12" straight sanding block and flex sanding block with 80 grit to finish. This takes awhile, go slow and maintain the 45 deg angles on doors and cover. After stage 3 install rivets around door.

Cabin cover flange will have to be built up or ground down for proper seal clearance(approx 5/16" for mine).

Pg 45-09 step 1 Use #40 then step up incrementally to 3/8" then sand the last 1/32" using C-1007 handle slide to test fit. Step 4 drill and tap approx 1 1/8" deep.

If installing Seans latch kit refer back and forth as needed to Sean's instructions and Van's instructions starting on P 45-11 and onward.

Pg 45-11 step 2 drill to 3/8" incrementally then use dremel 5/16" sanding drum to take up to 1/2" to prevent separating doors shells with 1/2" bit.

You will need longer csk screws in various places on the doors.

Have fun, wear a respirator and get on here if you have any problems.
 
OK, I got the doors glued together and they look acceptable (the usual bulge here and there), and am now fitting them into the opening. My plan is to follow the practice of a few others here of fitting the hinges after the top of the door is fit to the opening, and then fitting the rest of the door. My question is - there is a lot of fore-aft slop in the hinges, and I recall reading somewhere that you if you slide the door half hinges one way or the other when drilling, it helps out in some way. But, I can't remember the details, and can't find the reference now. Any thoughts? Center the hinges in the gap, or slide them one way or the other?

Thanks, -Andy
 
I installed mine so they can't have any slop.

When drilling the holes for the hinges on the doors, slide the rear hinge on the door all the way aft on the hinge pin.

On the forward hinge slide the door half all the way forward on the hinge pin.

What you end up with is the rear hinge keeps you from having slop aft and the front one keeps you from having slop forward. You end up with a door that only drops one way and does it that same way every time.

On a side note, pay close attention to the drawings and compare them to each hinge half. Each half is not the same. (and mark them well)

Phil
 
I agree with Phil, you can also shim them with washers if required. Before you mount the hinges, decide if you are going to countersink hinge covers. If you do, you need to lower the hinge cutout to accommodate the covers by about .040. Also, make sure the hinges are parallel to each other. Use a piece of angle and clamp it to both hinges to confirm they are parallel. I would also make a drill guide out of a .5 inch piece of steel. Drill a hole with the drill press as a guide. Use this to make sure that the holes you drill through the hinges into the cabin cover are all perpendicular.
Make sure to study the hinges as Phil has described and compare them to the illustration then label them when you are sure you have them correct!
 
On the subject of doors, I sat in the back of Van's demo -10 and one thing that surprised me was the amount of flex in the cabin top when the doors reached their full open position. The hinge attach points flexed enough that they drew my eye.

Is this common? If so, I can't imagine the hinge attach points are going to withstand that over decades of use.
 
I can't imagine this airframe will stand decades of use! When I compare it to the Archer I am now flying I am amazed at how light weight all the components are. Take a look at the flap attach brackets and compare it to any other certified aircraft. On the other hand, that's why it is so blazing fast and efficient. In all seriousness, my doors also flex quite a bit, as do the hinge attach points. I get concerned about real windy days......

Bill
 
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