What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Any RV-12 updates?

Unfortunately Noel information has been slim lately, even from the most recent fly-ins like the homecoming.

Lots of pictures and videos scattered about the web. You can find most of them on You-Tube.

What we know so far is that they are stretching the fuselage about 2 inchs to create a little more leg room and space for the toe brakes. The steerable nosewheel is out and free castoring nose-wheel (like the other RV's) is in for the next version so the handbrakes get replaced by toe brakes.

A new airfoil was selected and they are going to increase the wing area to lower the stall speed. I don't know if the extra area will come in increased chord or increased span. Increased chord keeps the span short for good strength. Increase length (high aspect ratio) is more efficient and good for glide ratio.

The new canopy has been fitted to the old prototype so what you see is what you get in the next one too.

The anticipated roll out of the new design is December of this year assuming all the changes work out according to the engineering calculations.

Not much news other than that.

Oh yeah. No tailwheel option but thats already being lamented on another thread.

Frank
 
Frank pretty much hit every point. The only things I would add are that:

1. They are sticking with the Rotax 912, 100 h.p. engine

2. Kits will be divided up a little differently, because they will build so fast (still no word on how though)

3. QB kits will be eventually following, but they won't save you as much time as the QB's on the rest of Van's planes.

4. From Ken at Van's: There will most likely be no demo rides in the -12 until the new version comes out, when ever that is. I keep hearing December as well, but I don't think anyone has a true, accurate estimate.

5. No options for tail dragger/sliders are in the works.
 
rv-12

it's still an experimental aircraft. if the builder wants an O-200, tail wheel, and sliding canopy he will go do it. someone will design this and make a "mint" on these mods. van can sit by the sidelines or choose to offer the options. he and his marketing people obviousily don't have a clue. i, for one, am willing to pay for the engineering to make this happen. perhaps i have offended the van worshipers with this concept, but van isn't the only player in this market. look at the rans s-19, now available in kit form.
 
Not if it's an experimental LSA kit!

nowlen said:
it's still an experimental aircraft. if the builder wants an O-200, tail wheel, and sliding canopy he will go do it. someone will design this and make a "mint" on these mods. van can sit by the sidelines or choose to offer the options. he and his marketing people obviousily don't have a clue. i, for one, am willing to pay for the engineering to make this happen. perhaps i have offended the van worshipers with this concept, but van isn't the only player in this market. look at the rans s-19, now available in kit form.
Click to expand...


It's confusing and I may be confused, but see the FAA order 8130.2F at:
http://rgl.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_library/rgorders.nsf/0/1ba6ee60e8779bd7862572c90063c0ac/$FILE/Order%208130.2f%20incorp%20with%20chg%203.pdf

"(5) The applicant seeking to obtain an experimental LSA certificate for a kit-built aircraft should be advised the aircraft must not be modified or altered without manufacturer?s approval before initial certification. "
 
The RV-12 will initially be offered as an amateur-built kit that meets the flight parameters for light-sport.
Before it can be offered as an "E-LSA kit", the kit manufacturer must first certify a "Special Light-Sport" aircraft of the same model.
 
increased Chord

rangelyflyer said:
The new wing will have an increase in chord according to the guy I talked to at Oshkosh.
Click to expand...

Since the CG range is usually a percentage of the chord maybe the 12 will pick up a little more CG range with the new wing.

Frank
 
Really novice question

Mel said:
The RV-12 will initially be offered as an amateur-built kit that meets the flight parameters for light-sport.
Before it can be offered as an "E-LSA kit", the kit manufacturer must first certify a "Special Light-Sport" aircraft of the same model.
Click to expand...

So as a VERY new to this topic person interested in the 12 and sport pilot, am I correct in understanding that if I were to build a 12 as an experimental and it met the light sport aircraft parameters I could fly it as such even if Van's does not have it certified as a light sport AC yet? Also, if this is allowed you could make changes such as instruments as long as the AC still met the parameters of the rules, correct?

Great resource folks! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Eric
 
grumpe said:
So as a VERY new to this topic person interested in the 12 and sport pilot, am I correct in understanding that if I were to build a 12 as an experimental and it met the light sport aircraft parameters I could fly it as such even if Van's does not have it certified as a light sport AC yet? Also, if this is allowed you could make changes such as instruments as long as the AC still met the parameters of the rules, correct?
Click to expand...

Correct on both counts.
 
FrankS said:
Since the CG range is usually a percentage of the chord maybe the 12 will pick up a little more CG range with the new wing.

Frank
Click to expand...

While it is true that CG range is normally stated as a percentage of chord, I believe that CG range is primarily established by other factors (such as the range of elevator authority, the area of the main wing, the area of the tail, and the distance between the main wing's mean chord and tail wing's mean chord.) Of the approximation formulas that I am aware of, the width of the main wing doesn't appear in them. However, I am not an aerodynamicist and don't play one on TV.
 
and..

JimLogajan said:
While it is true that CG range is normally stated as a percentage of chord, I believe that CG range is primarily established by other factors (such as the range of elevator authority, the area of the main wing, the area of the tail, and the distance between the main wing's mean chord and tail wing's mean chord.) Of the approximation formulas that I am aware of, the width of the main wing doesn't appear in them. However, I am not an aerodynamicist and don't play one on TV.
Click to expand...

And you didn't sleep at a Holday Inn Expess last night either!!!

he he
 
Vans Marketing approach?

I'm really surprised at Vans marketing approach. I think RV enthusiests are perhaps more interested in technical details than other experimental groups. So why is Vans holding back on the updates on the RV-12? Surely they have made some progress since the last update of June 19th.

Could it be (as Van has suggested himself in interviews) that this new design is going to take longer to complete than the typical evolution of the other RV designs? I didn't want to use the word "complex" and convey the wrong image but any completely new design has a lot of little details to resolve. Especially if you are preparing production tooling and assembly manuals at the same time.

Still, some kind of progress report would be appreciated. I would think monthly updates would be sufficient to hold peoples interest.

Frank
 
RV-12 first to be PRE-announced!

My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
 
Mel said:
My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
Click to expand...

Easy Mel. I've actually been one of the guys on the forum that likes the design and I look forward to the improvements. I don't think Van is offended by the feedback of these forums (even negative feedback) because that at least shows interest in the product. Vans self stated concerns are whether there is sufficient market for a LSA and forums like these provide some valuable feedback as to what the market is looking for in an LSA.

Although I'm not all that fond of some of Rans Marketing approach in some ways they have been diligent in posting the deevlopment progress of the S-19 which has been entertaining and informative.

Its just curious minds want to know.

Frank
 
My sentiments exactly...

Mel said:
My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
Click to expand...

I, for one, appreciate the updates and picitures that Van's has been providing. I'm content to wait for the final numbers and specs. I just like to know they are still making progress on it, in whatever form it will take. Let's give em a chance to bring it to market.

I'm sure all the things about it people dont like, some third party will offer a product. :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top