Another rudder question

[JohnR]

This week was really busy work wise and I am just getting to the rudder trailing edge. I was going to use the proseal I got from Van's to glue the edge tonight. When I got it our it is only 1 oz. I don't think there is enough of it to do the edge. How much proseal or epoxy did it take when you all did yours?

I dug around and found a 1 oz container of 30 minute epoxy also. Maybe I could use both but would prefer one or the other. Doesn't look like I have enough of either though. I was really hoping to get this done tonight. Thought about just riveting it as some have done but I'm not sure I want to try that.

Comments appreciated.

 

[robjohnson]

Not very much

John,

I used epoxy on my trailing edge, and it didn't require very much. I used the 30 minute stuff, and with some nitrile gloves, I spread a very thin coat on the AEX wedge. Basically, I put the epoxy on my thumb and forefinger and pinched the wedge to smear the epoxy on evenly. This worked very well. I know others have had success with the proseal, too. I don't think you will go wrong either route.

 

[jcoloccia]

This week was really busy work wise and I am just getting to the rudder trailing edge. I was going to use the proseal I got from Van's to glue the edge tonight. When I got it our it is only 1 oz. I don't think there is enough of it to do the edge. How much proseal or epoxy did it take when you all did yours?

I dug around and found a 1 oz container of 30 minute epoxy also. Maybe I could use both but would prefer one or the other. Doesn't look like I have enough of either though. I was really hoping to get this done tonight. Thought about just riveting it as some have done but I'm not sure I want to try that.

Comments appreciated.

I used the 1 oz. thingy of proseal to do my rudder. 1oz is not only enough to do your rudder, you'll have enough left over to:

1) ruin your pants

2) glue the trailing edge down to the aluminum angle (smear some boelube on the angle first...makes life much easier a couple of days from now....put boelube on the clecoes too)

3) track the black goop on the bottom of your shoes into EVERY room of the house

etc etc etc.....

After all that, you'll still have enough left over to help 3 of your friends glue their trailing edges and ruin their pants . Once you start working with it, you'll see that Vans ain't joking when he says all you want is a THIN coat. Anything more will either have to be squeezed out (not as easy as it sounds) or will leave a bump. I found, after much experimentation (here defined as "making a mess" ) that putting a tiny little glop on the AEX wedge, and then using the side of a popsicle stick to smear it out really really thin worked pretty well.

There's just no way to do this without making a mess. Just dive in, have lots of gloves handy, make whatever mess you have to make, and then clean up with MEK (stuff comes right off, believe it or not).

edit: I'll just add one thing about using epoxy. Most "30" minute epoxies that I know of are really more like 10 minutes usuable, and 30 minutes until it turns into a 150 degree Farenheit hunk of plastic shaped suspiciously like whatever container you happen to be mixing it in. West Systems is really stable and reliable. The junk you get at Home Depot is hit or miss.

 

[JohnR]

Thanks guys! Shortly after posting I decided to just go out and do it. I used the proseal and your John you are right, there is plenty. I did the edge and still had enough to get the t-shirt I was wearing and make a nice mess.

I had read in another post that using boelube on the angle was a good idea so I did do that. Luckily I was worried about not having enough so I spread it really thin with the popsicle stick. Got bot sides done and started putting clekos in and stuff started oozing out everywhere. So much for worrying about not having enough.

I was kind of dreading my first bout with proseal but it really wasn't bad. I am glad to have that part done though.

Here is a photo.

 

[cjensen]

lookin' great john!!

 

[JoeG]

Rudder Trailing Edge Picture

John,

What kind of fixture do you have the rudder trailing edge clecoed to in your picture? I am probably going to start on my empennage kit next week and I am just starting to read through the manual and drawings.

Looks like a clever way of keeping the edges together...

Thanks,

 

[Jekyll]

John,

What kind of fixture do you have the rudder trailing edge clecoed to in your picture? I am probably going to start on my empennage kit next week and I am just starting to read through the manual and drawings.

Joe:

The method is explained in the construction manual. Buy some cheap angle from Home Depot or such. You don't need to waste 5 feet of more expensive aircraft angle. Just remember to flag it so you don't use it for aircraft structure.

I used epoxy for a few reasons:

I believe it easier to work with than Proseal and it has a longer pot life.

You mix only what you need. The 2 sizes of Proseal offered by Van's don't quite fit the bill here. The small size must be mixed all at once, no choice. You'll end up wasting a lot (that which doesn't end up on your clothes). Proseal has a 4-month shelf life so, if you buy the large size, there is a good chance it will expire before you need it for your tanks.

Proseal is expensive.

Jekyll

 

[aparchment]

Proseal v. Epoxy

I will probably do my rudder trailing edge tonight. I have the 1 oz. Proseal, but I am considering using Hysol 9462 instead (after I read the product specs). I am considering 9462 because it has an incredibly long pot life and is incredibly strong. I could then use the Proseal to attach to the rear of the stiffeners per the directions.

Does anyone know if Proseal retains some flexibility when it is cured?

Antony

 

[DGlaeser]

Rudder TE

I will probably do my rudder trailing edge tonight. I have the 1 oz. Proseal, but I am considering using Hysol 9462 instead (after I read the product specs). I am considering 9462 because it has an incredibly long pot life and is incredibly strong. I could then use the Proseal to attach to the rear of the stiffeners per the directions.

Does anyone know if Proseal retains some flexibility when it is cured?

Antony

Proseal remains flexible when cured - like a hard rubber - because it is a sealant, not an adhesive. Keep in mind, whatever you use is just to keep the parts from moving while you install the rivets. I used JBWeld (it was handy).

Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage

 

[JohnR]

As Jekyll said it was as mentioned in the plans. I just bought a piece of al angle at Menards and used it.

 

[osxuser]

You can also thin down proseal with MEK and brush it on .

 

[jcoloccia]

re: the angle

Do what I did....find a local builder building a -7 or a -9 and borrow that angle. Then lend it someone else when you're done and so on. Not only is it cheaper, but the angle is predrilled. If you're the first in your area, keep the angle kicking around...someone will want to use it some day, or donate it to your local chapter's tool crib.

 

[jlfernan]

Proseal on rudder stiffners

Just about to close up may rudder and was wondering if I should put some proseal in the rudder stiffners like it's suggested for the elevators? I know it can't hurt, but could other problems arise?

 

[MTBehnke]

Proseal tube

I'm prosealing the front and back ends of the rudder and elevator stiffeners, as well as the trailing edges.

I wasn't sure the 1 oz. size was going to be enough so I ordered the mixing tube of Proseal from Van's. I didn't want to mix up and waste a whole tube for each step.

Instead I got a couple of sealable plastic containers. I screwed out the plunger, with the black mix, out of the tube, punctured the end, then squirted it into one of the containers. I did the same with the white goo in the main tube, but into the other container.

Hasn't been messy at all and I know I have plenty to do all the empennage parts.

Mike Behnke
RV-9A Empennage

 

[philn]

I didn't have any Proseal and didn't want to wait and order some from Vans, as I didn't need it for the tanks yet, and it would take a few weeks by normal post (FedEx to NZ costs a fortune), so I cheated. I found a piece of angle iron, a piece of wood beading with the same angle as the rudder, then cut the wood into short lengths to cover 4 rivets. I then clamped the wood pieces onto the rudder on top of the angle leaving a single rivet exposed between each block of wood. I then started riveting from the centre, then the outsides, then half way between, etc, until the first set of exposed rivets were done. Then I unclamped the blocks one by one moving them over one rivet, and repeated the whole process over and over until I had riveted them all. Straight as and no mess. Took about 2 hours including thinking time. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but hey - it worked. (I would include a photo, but this is my first post, and I haven't figured out how to yet).

Phil North
RV-7 Wings
ZK-REB reserved