Andair Fuel Extension, Clocked 45 Degrees?

[skajake]

I bought an Andair extension kit for the FS20 Type 2 fuel selector and was surprised when it arrived to find the top (red) receiver clocked 45 degrees off-axis. What this means is that the selector handle doesn't line up straight with the plate at the top of the tunnel cover — in my case, the Aerosport armrest throttle quadrant.

I reached out to Andair and was told the kit is designed to impart a 45-degree rotation to the fuel selector valve. I'm having a hard time believing that's intentional, because the selector looks pretty crummy when it's not pointing straight forward.

Can anyone else who has installed one of these extension kits confirm that they all apply a rotation? I'm trying to figure out whether there's a different extension kit I should have ordered, or if I'll need to buy a coupler to apply my own correction to "fix" it. Andair hasn't been very responsive to my emails.

Here is the rotation in the receiver:


The fuel selector is oriented straight forward:


As is the face plate:

 

[adamrjansen]

Not an answer to your question, but why did you choose the Andair FS20 type 2? It’s my understanding that the type 7 is the standard choice.

 

[skajake]

The EFII system requires a duplex fuel selector with return flow support.

 

[fdeppieri]

Hi,
I had the same situation.
I solved this problem adding a U-joint (the location of my fuel knob is noy aligned with the valve) allowing to choose the angular positioning as I prefer.

Francesco

 

[dmattmul]

I bought an Andair extension kit for the FS20 Type 2 fuel selector and was surprised when it arrived to find the top (red) receiver clocked 45 degrees off-axis. What this means is that the selector handle doesn't line up straight with the plate at the top of the tunnel cover — in my case, the Aerosport armrest throttle quadrant.

I reached out to Andair and was told the kit is designed to impart a 45-degree rotation to the fuel selector valve. I'm having a hard time believing that's intentional, because the selector looks pretty crummy when it's not pointing straight forward.

Can anyone else who has installed one of these extension kits confirm that they all apply a rotation? I'm trying to figure out whether there's a different extension kit I should have ordered, or if I'll need to buy a coupler to apply my own correction to "fix" it. Andair hasn't been very responsive to my emails.

Here is the rotation in the receiver:


The fuel selector is oriented straight forward:


As is the face plate:

Just to clarify you are using the FS2020 duplex fuel valve? Mine did not line up correctly either or what I thought "looked" correct. Since my 14 uses the same valve wanted it to line up the same as the 14. Next picture (14) with the logo clocked at the 6 o'clock position.



The 10 from Andair the logo was initially at the 7:30 position and look "off". This is how it looks when you change the adapter from red to the blue one:





This is the blue vs the red one:



Just to clarify where do you want to see the Andair logo? Also don't bother e-mailing them but call in the morning their time. They don't answer emails very well.

You could also "fix" it by using this rotary adapter, I did not have to:

 

[rmartingt]

I used the extension and it turned the knob and faceplate 45 degrees. I was ok with that because then the pointer went to the left for the left tank and to the right for the right tank. It wound up looking like the one in Post 4.

 

[Floats]

WARNING! A dangerous cross-flow can occur with an Andair EFS2020-D2-M Duplex Fuel Selector when using an extension between the valve body and the controlling fascia plate and pointer knob.

The red or blue drive adapters (shown in a previous post) orient the red pointer knob differently to the valve body. The fascia plate, with indents controlling the red pointer knob, can be mounted in any orientation. If the fascia plate is mounted 45 degrees off from its intended position, fuel may cross-flow to and from both tanks, and when the fuel level gets low, the engine may sputter, as if running out of fuel. You can imagine how I figured this out.

I suggest that you assemble the valve and its controlling components before installing it in the aircraft. Remove any 90 degree AN fittings to observe the valve flow orientation. Both the valve and the fascia plate have sensory indents that indicate when the valve is in the proper position, and it is important to mount the fascia plate according to the valve's proper function.

The red or blue drive adapters require the fascia plate to be mounted 45 degrees differently.

The blue drive adapter requires "RIGHT" to be oriented directly forward at a 12 o'clock position.

I received a red drive adapter (arrow pointing to it) and needed to mount the fascia plate with “RIGHT” oriented 45 degrees to the right.

 

[TS Flightlines]

WARNING! A dangerous cross-flow can occur with an Andair EFS2020-D2-M Duplex Fuel Selector when using an extension between the valve body and the controlling fascia plate and pointer knob.

The red or blue drive adapters (shown in a previous post) orient the red pointer knob differently to the valve body. The fascia plate, with indents controlling the red pointer knob, can be mounted in any orientation. If the fascia plate is mounted 45 degrees off from its intended position, fuel may cross-flow to and from both tanks, and when the fuel level gets low, the engine may sputter, as if running out of fuel. You can imagine how I figured this out.

I suggest that you assemble the valve and its controlling components before installing it in the aircraft. Remove any 90 degree AN fittings to observe the valve flow orientation. Both the valve and the fascia plate have sensory indents that indicate when the valve is in the proper position, and it is important to mount the fascia plate according to the valve's proper function.

The red or blue drive adapters require the fascia plate to be mounted 45 degrees differently.

The blue drive adapter requires "RIGHT" to be oriented directly forward at a 12 o'clock position.

I received a red drive adapter (arrow pointing to it) and needed to mount the fascia plate with “RIGHT” oriented 45 degrees to the right.

View attachment 115724 View attachment 115725

personally, I think is a really good idea to mock up things like this, especially where safety of flight comes into play. Check not only for normal flow, cross flow, but also IF fuel is cut off when the handle is pointed in the direction you want. NOT a good thing.

 

[strikerpilot]

Yes, this is normal. It actually makes it better because the right can now be on the right. and the left can be on the left. You can 3d print a different facia plate pretty easily.

 

[Floats]

WARNING! A dangerous cross-flow can occur with an Andair EFS2020-D2-M Duplex Fuel Selector when using an extension between the valve body and the controlling fascia plate and pointer knob.

The red or blue drive adapters (shown in a previous post) orient the red pointer knob differently to the valve body. The fascia plate, with indents controlling the red pointer knob, can be mounted in any orientation. If the fascia plate is mounted 45 degrees off from its intended position, fuel may cross-flow to and from both tanks, and when the fuel level gets low, the engine may sputter, as if running out of fuel. You can imagine how I figured this out.

I suggest that you assemble the valve and its controlling components before installing it in the aircraft. Remove any 90 degree AN fittings to observe the valve flow orientation. Both the valve and the fascia plate have sensory indents that indicate when the valve is in the proper position, and it is important to mount the fascia plate according to the valve's proper function.

The red or blue drive adapters require the fascia plate to be mounted 45 degrees differently.

The blue drive adapter requires "RIGHT" to be oriented directly forward at a 12 o'clock position.

I received a red drive adapter (arrow pointing to it) and needed to mount the fascia plate with “RIGHT” oriented 45 degrees to the right.

View attachment 115724 View attachment 115725

Here's a drawing showing the potential for misaligning the facia, resulting in a dangerous cross-feed.

 

[strikerpilot]

Here's a drawing showing the potential for misaligning the facia, resulting in a dangerous cross-feed.View attachment 115761

Nice graphic !

 

[gasman]

Leave it to Andair to complicate one of the simplest parts on an RV aircraft....
And then charge big $$$$ for it!...

 

[dmattmul]

WARNING! A dangerous cross-flow can occur with an Andair EFS2020-D2-M Duplex Fuel Selector when using an extension between the valve body and the controlling fascia plate and pointer knob.

The red or blue drive adapters (shown in a previous post) orient the red pointer knob differently to the valve body. The fascia plate, with indents controlling the red pointer knob, can be mounted in any orientation. If the fascia plate is mounted 45 degrees off from its intended position, fuel may cross-flow to and from both tanks, and when the fuel level gets low, the engine may sputter, as if running out of fuel. You can imagine how I figured this out.

I suggest that you assemble the valve and its controlling components before installing it in the aircraft. Remove any 90 degree AN fittings to observe the valve flow orientation. Both the valve and the fascia plate have sensory indents that indicate when the valve is in the proper position, and it is important to mount the fascia plate according to the valve's proper function.

The red or blue drive adapters require the fascia plate to be mounted 45 degrees differently.

The blue drive adapter requires "RIGHT" to be oriented directly forward at a 12 o'clock position.

I received a red drive adapter (arrow pointing to it) and needed to mount the fascia plate with “RIGHT” oriented 45 degrees to the right.

View attachment 115724 View attachment 115725

I understand plumbing any fuel part incorrectly could be an issue but since the engine will not run in the cross-feed position one should know very soon (even if the engine won't run the pump will make a terrible noise) that there is an issue. Even left overnight the tanks will just equalize. Nice graphics !

 

[Floats]

I understand plumbing any fuel part incorrectly could be an issue but since the engine will not run in the cross-feed position one should know very soon (even if the engine won't run the pump will make a terrible noise) that there is an issue. Even left overnight the tanks will just equalize. Nice graphics !

That’s why this is dangerous, the engine will run with the cross flow. I had unknowingly mounted the valve facia plate in the cross flow orientation and tested to find good pressure and plentiful flow volume before the first flight. I flew several flights before noticing fuel coming out of both tanks. I purposely flew with only the valve at 12 o’clock pointing the Facia plate “RIGHT,” then measured the fuel in the tank with a glass tube. Always finding it the same in both tanks. I then disconnected the return line at each tank and ran fuel into cups and found the right tank return anemic and the left plentiful. After contacting Andair with a few emails and three phone calls with no responses, I inquired other knowledgeable builders. They confirmed something was amiss but no clue as to what. Toren from Andair eventually replied via email, retitled the subject as “Cross Flow,” but didn’t offer any suggestions as to what might be the problem. I then pulled the valve out, akin to open heart surgery, to reassemble on the bench and found the misaligned valve holes, at this point realizing I needed rotate the Facia Plate to align with the aligned valve holes. Explaining this to Toren, he emailed that I have the red drive adapter which requires rotating the Facia Plate. Up to this point I was unaware of a drive adapter. There no mention of it on my order form or list of items sent to me. I found no instructions from Andair and still find no mention of drive adapters on the Andair website.
In retrospect the cross flow explains why on a flight to get fuel, I had 10 gallons in the tanks and the engine started sputtering with low power. Fortunately, I was descending on the 45 to the airport and performed a somewhat power off landing, then sputtered to the fuel pump. After filling the tanks, the sputtering went away and I flew home to diagnose and fix the problem.

 

[Pdp7427]

I used the extension and it turned the knob and faceplate 45 degrees. I was ok with that because then the pointer went to the left for the left tank and to the right for the right tank. It wound up looking like the one in Post 4.

The tactile feedback of the selector being left or right is importing. You know what tank is selected without looking at it. When you reach down and the lever is at 12 o’clock (for the right tank), if you aren’t intimately familiar with the airplane then it’s confusing and it requires that you focus your eyes and attention on the selector to verify.

Here’s what I did-

 

[dmattmul]

That’s why this is dangerous, the engine will run with the cross flow. I had unknowingly mounted the valve facia plate in the cross flow orientation and tested to find good pressure and plentiful flow volume before the first flight. I flew several flights before noticing fuel coming out of both tanks. I purposely flew with only the valve at 12 o’clock pointing the Facia plate “RIGHT,” then measured the fuel in the tank with a glass tube. Always finding it the same in both tanks. I then disconnected the return line at each tank and ran fuel into cups and found the right tank return anemic and the left plentiful. After contacting Andair with a few emails and three phone calls with no responses, I inquired other knowledgeable builders. They confirmed something was amiss but no clue as to what. Toren from Andair eventually replied via email, retitled the subject as “Cross Flow,” but didn’t offer any suggestions as to what might be the problem. I then pulled the valve out, akin to open heart surgery, to reassemble on the bench and found the misaligned valve holes, at this point realizing I needed rotate the Facia Plate to align with the aligned valve holes. Explaining this to Toren, he emailed that I have the red drive adapter which requires rotating the Facia Plate. Up to this point I was unaware of a drive adapter. There no mention of it on my order form or list of items sent to me. I found no instructions from Andair and still find no mention of drive adapters on the Andair website.
In retrospect the cross flow explains why on a flight to get fuel, I had 10 gallons in the tanks and the engine started sputtering with low power. Fortunately, I was descending on the 45 to the airport and performed a somewhat power off landing, then sputtered to the fuel pump. After filling the tanks, the sputtering went away and I flew home to diagnose and fix the problem.

Thanks, looking at your drawing it appeared the engine side would be blocked. Appreciate the detailed explanation !

I’ve had a 14 with the FS2020 for over 700 hrs and a 10 now for over 100 hrs and they worked correctly from the beginning. Love Andair fuel valves and filters !!

 

[dmattmul]

The tactile feedback of the selector being left or right is importing. You know what tank is selected without looking at it. When you reach down and the lever is at 12 o’clock (for the right tank), if you aren’t intimately familiar with the airplane then it’s confusing and it requires that you focus your eyes and attention on the selector to verify.

Here’s what I did-

View attachment 115859

It would be interesting to see what other users of the Duplex FS2020 orientation looks like. I have seen a few and the only installations where there is an extension used had the selector at the 10:30 and 2:30 positions. Of course, most don't use an extension (only used where a console was installed) and those have the selector at the 09:00 and 12:00 position. I am not sure why Andair changed this design for selectors that have an extension vs a non-extension or if it was an accident. (Andair produces the fuel selector valve for Cirrus (FS2025 design) with the fuel selector position at 10:30 and 2:30 position. Maybe they were trying to keep the same design as both these and Cirrus use an extension.

This is from Andairs web site, you can see it appears the design was meant to have the selector at 09:00 and 12:00.



I have flown with both designs and both very intuitive and easy to adjust.

This is the fuel selector for non-extension fuel selectors which is the majority of the FS2020's out there. (7,8,9's and 14's that use SDS or EFII for non-extension applications) I changed my 10-fuel selector to mimic what I had been using for over 6 years in the 14.

 

[skajake]

Thanks to all the feedback. I have decided to simply drill new holes and rotate my face plate 45 degrees.