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air compressor purchase opinion needed

C

cbrown747

Active Member
I have looked at many threads on the air compressor specs, including vans. I am not thinking of doing any painting and I may not use an air drill so can a 12 gal oil lub, 125psi air compressor do the job of building an RV? I see one on sale the next couple of days for only $149 (craftsman).
 
I used a $130 el cheapo (Black Cat) compressor to build mine. I also had a 20 gl air tank plumbed in parallel to increase the volume. Other than constant running, it did the job.
 
It's the running time that'll make you crazy. I often do compression checks with someones little compressor on Annuals. Drives you nuts holding a prop blade forever while you wait for the noise to stop so you can hear what's happening in the engine. Also frustrating to have your die grinder fade out in the middle of a cut. I would shop by pump CFM & tank size. Motor size less important for light duty stuff. Even a cheap one will give you years of light duty.
 
cbrown747 said:
...I am not thinking of doing any painting and I may not use an air drill so can a 12 gal oil lub, 125psi air compressor do the job of building an RV? ...).
Click to expand...

Can it? ... Yes.

Will you enjoy it? ... Probably not.

Depending on your time frame and patience you can use an electric drill to build an RV. The RV's, especially the "Quick Build" kits, do not require a lot of heavy drilling into big chunks of metal such as spars, so you don't necessarily need heavy equipment. (If you're building an RV-12 I'd think this would be especially true.)

If the cost of the compressor is an issue then I'll assume you're not going the "Quick Build" route, which means you'll be drilling a lot of holes. Not to mention all the riveting. A small 12 gal compressor will run constantly while drilling and most of these little buggers are pretty noisy. So consider fatigue factor. Plus with small compressors you can often feel the drill changing speeds and getting hot in your hand since the drill is using air faster than the compressor can refill the canister. This is bad for your drill, not to mention the round hole you're trying to make. Most of the air drills like to have 90 psi at the gun to maintain correct speed and the little compressors just can't keep up when doing a lot of work or drilling into a thick piece of aluminum.

I started my -8 project with a 20 gallon, 5 hp Craftsman compressor. It ran constantly, was extremely noisy and just drove me nuts. I frequently had to stop what I was doing and wait for the compressor to refill sufficiently so I could drill again. I finally bought an 80 gallon compressor and never regretted the decision. Though 80 gallons may be a bit of overkill, the compressor motor would run maybe once an evening to refill the tank. It was blessedly quiet the rest of the time.

Just my two cents but I say buy something larger, at least 60 gallons. Look around the classifieds for a used one -- I suspect there are builders out there who want to sell their compressor once finished their project.

To your original question -- yes you can use a small compressor. It's just a matter of what trade offs you're willing to make.

Chris
 
chrispratt said:
Can it? ... Yes.


... Just my two cents but I say buy something larger, at least 60 gallons. Look around the classifieds for a used one -- I suspect there are builders out there who want to sell their compressor once finished their project.


Chris
Click to expand...

If you have a Menards store in your area, they are having a great sale right now on the Sanborn 60 gal compressor. Price is $378 with rebate, Offer good through December 5.
 
Makita Mac700

I promise I don't work Makita, but I can't help putting in a plug for their MAC700. It's a small compressor like the ones you find at Menards or Harbor Freight, but MUCH quieter. It has a low rpm motor and compressor, so it makes more of a low purr than a loud annoying buzz. My shop is in my basement, and the MAC is barely audible upstairs. You can easily talk over it in a normal voice.

It keeps up with my air drill and riveters, and is portable enough to take to the hangar for annuals and compression checks, which it also does with ease.

I have an inexplicable affinity for air compressors, and this is one of my favorites. The only way to have a quieter compressor is to buy an old 60's
chugger or pony up for a big screw comprssor.

M
 
Air Compressor

I have a Dayton 1.6 hp 20 gal compressor running on 120VAC. This was the largest portable compressor I could find that still ran on 120VAC as I didn't have access to 220VAC. I am quite happy with it. Of course you can't use an air die grinder constantly with it, but for drilling, riveting and even painting with an HVLP gun it is fine.
 
cbrown747 said:
I have looked at many threads on the air compressor specs, including vans. I am not thinking of doing any painting and I may not use an air drill so can a 12 gal oil lub, 125psi air compressor do the job of building an RV? I see one on sale the next couple of days for only $149 (craftsman).
Click to expand...

How many SCFM at 90 psi does it produce? If it is this one, it is undersized for the job: http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10...rs+&+Air+Tools&prdNo=9&blockNo=9&blockType=L9

The issue with compressors is that bigger is better (and more expensive). If you're on a budget and only plan to build one plane, a good compromise would be to buy the least expensive one that'll get the job done.

If you're buying one for the long haul (several planes, big shop aspirations, etc.) it is probably advisable to purchase a bigger one.

As a data point, I think I have the 20 gallon, 5 horse Craftsman compressor mentioned by Chris Pratt earlier in the thread. It got me through building and painting my airplane, but no doubt it was loud. For what it is worth, that compressor would probably be rated at 1.5 hp according to today's rating practices. I think this is today's equivalent: http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10...&+Air+Tools&prdNo=22&blockNo=22&blockType=L22

It would be adequate for the job. There is also a vertical tank model at the same price. I'll choose a vertical tank model the next time around - takes up less shop space, etc.
 
In the UK, it must cost ?50K minimum to build an RV, so for you guys, $75K?

The one "tool" you will use from Day 1 to the last day (and beyond) is the compressor, and there is little to be gained by "upgrading" / having a spare etc. It will probably be in the same room / workshop as you.

My advice therefore would be, in this area, buy one with a decent spec in terms of noise / capacity / reliability. We spent ?450 on a quiet / good one, rather than ?100 on a cheapo, and well into the second RV, it was a great decision ;)

Andy
 
Compesssor

Do research the archives - it's all there for you to view and decide. My opinion may vary from most but I try to buy at or near the top of the line tools.

Don't get 'cheap' tools - you will regret that forever and may eventually replace all or most of them with better tools.

Sorry to say this but you can't afford a good quality air compressor and tools then maybe you should reevaluate your desire to 'build' an airplane. Maybe purchase one already 'built'.

In my opinion, aircraft ownership and/or construction is not a good place to cut corners.
 
I think a person can get decent quality tools for a good price, IF they do their homework first. I call this cutting costs not cutting corners. I also think that the nature of some tasks justifies buying top of the line tools, while other tasks can be done just as well with cheapo stuff. The art is in knowing which tasks require which tools. Only experience can teach that.
 
diamond said:
I think a person can get decent quality tools for a good price, IF they do their homework first. I call this cutting costs not cutting corners. I also think that the nature of some tasks justifies buying top of the line tools, while other tasks can be done just as well with cheapo stuff. The art is in knowing which tasks require which tools. Only experience can teach that.
Click to expand...

A man after my own heart.

Most folks don't have unlimited resources and have to make value trade-off's. One of the interesting things I see (in aviation, woodworking, and other hobbies) is that some spend years and bazillions of dollars putting together the perfect shop. And at the other end of that scale, there is the guy who decided to build something and got started (buying tools as he needed along the way). A year or two down the road the guy who got started on his project (rather than started building the ultimate shop) is well into his project before the "shop" guy gets started on the *real* project.
 
I just picked up a used 60 gallon 135psi compressor for $300. I plumbed my shop with RapidAir for another $100. I previously had been using a roll around unit. The good things about the big compressor is that it is quieter and comes on much less often. The bad thing is that it's necessary to have a place to put it, though that's not a problem in my case.

I've been watching my pennies and have put together a decent set of tools on a budget. Buying used helps.
 
Compesssor

Do research the archives - it's all there for you to view and decide. My opinion may vary from most but I try to buy at or near the top of the line tools.

Don't get 'cheap' tools - you will regret that forever and may eventually replace them with better tools.

Sorry to say this but if you can't afford a good quality air compressor and tools then you should reevaluate your desire to 'build' an airplane. Maybe purchase one already 'built'.

Aircraft ownership and/or construction is not a good place to cut corners.
 
thanks for all the replies on the air compressor opinion

I appreciate the feedback on air compressor. I am not looking to buy my first kit until maybe the end of next year because I am clearing my liabilities (short term loans) so I have the resources. I do have vans trial kits and was looking at least working on this to get some hands on experience.

One thing I don't believe I mentioned was that I am definitely planning on going the QB route so that is why I thought I would not need a large compressor.

It appears that most of you believe the compressor would be running all the time so my biggest concern it to be as quiet as I can for both the household and neighbors. With this info, it looks like I will get a minimum 20 gal or more.

Thanks again.
 
If "quiet" is a factor, spend the extra money for a 2-stage compressor. They are MUCH quieter and last longer. Unfortunately you probably won't find a "small" 2-stage compressor.
 
If you are considering ordering, notice the $90 extra freight.
Direct drive= noisy
3.5 hp on 120 volts, nope!
Just my opinion, I would keep looking.
 
On the other hand.....

longranger said:
IMHO, if it's electric, don't buy it at HF. I've left a drill press and a bandsaw from them at the curb. The bandsaw cut one piece of metal before the blade refused to ever stay on the wheels again, and the drill press would drill a 1/4" hole with a 1/8" bit.:mad:
Click to expand...

I have a floor model drill press and band saw from Harbor Freight that I have used regularly for over 20 years and several airplane builds.
When I got ready to buy this drill press, I thought I would buy "quality" instead of HF. I went to Sears "Craftsman" and low and behold they had the exact same drill press except that it was black and had the Craftsman name on it for almost twice the price.
 
Mel thanks, I'll go with the oiled huskey at Lowes that was discussed. The little 10 gal oil-free I have is dead, and was way to loud.
 
Dental compressor

Just a note for the archives ...

I built Smokey with a small Pelton & Crane dental compressor. It is very small (probably less than 2' high and only about 1.5' diameter) and VERY quiet. If I had wanted it to be even quieter, I suppose I could've built a small insulated box around it, but I didn't really ever notice the noise that much.

I inherited it when I bought an old practice and his old equipment 20 years ago, so I'm not sure how easy it is to find one these days. However, if you called a dental equipment supplier -- found in most city phone books -- can't hurt to ask. Even the really big one I have now -- twin cylinders -- is pretty quiet.

This little compressor helped me to all of my riveting, powered my air drill and even the die grinder (although it ran constantly and I had to wait a few times for it to recover). Now I just use it to air up my tires. :D

Just something to consider.
 
"I plumbed my shop with RapidAir for another $100."

Wow, I’ve been suffering from paralyses by analysis, as to how to plum my shop for compressed air (we’ve recently moved into a 3 car garage, with a nice house attached) but this rapidair thing looks like the way to go.
 
Experimental Chaos said:
"I plumbed my shop with RapidAir for another $100."

Wow, I?ve been suffering from paralyses by analysis, as to how to plum my shop for compressed air (we?ve recently moved into a 3 car garage, with a nice house attached) but this rapidair thing looks like the way to go.
Click to expand...

I plumbed my shop with RapidAir too. I realize it may not be the best of all choices but you get what you pay for and I've been pleased with the result. I think it took me about two hours to do but it's easy for me to get into my shop's attic.
 
I took Matt's advice and bought a Mac700 portable compressor. Looks to be a very solid unit and quiet. Looking forward to many years of use. Thanks for the heads up Matt.
 
Makitas?

To anyone with the Makitas, how are they working out for you?

I just checked them out after hearing about them in this thread and it appears that the MAC5200 is one of the most powerful 120V compressors out there. I can't find anything over 5.5CFM on 120V.

Sadly I'm stuck with 120V, no 220v in the condo garage, only one 20A circuit for everything...

I was planning on getting one of these.
 
PEX for shop air

diamond said:
I took Matt's advice and bought a Mac700 portable compressor. Looks to be a very solid unit and quiet. Looking forward to many years of use. Thanks for the heads up Matt.
Click to expand...

Glad I could help!

Regarding shop air, I didn't know about the rapidair stuff, so I took a different route: I used PEX tubing and press-in quick connectors to plumb my shop. PEX is the stuff they use to plumb water lines in houses these days, but it's basically a large version of the pitot/static tubing we all use in our RVs. I think a 100 foot coil costs something like 25 bucks, and the fittings are a few bucks apiece.

I used the 1/2" size, rated at 150psi. Tubing, fittings, and hangars are all available at the local Home Depot. Ironically, it's in the Plumbing department instead of the Aviation section.



M
 
Just mounted.........

an old Dresser 450 pump on top of my new Ingersold Rand 80 gallon tank. The pump is old, made in the USA, but works great. The pump that came on the Ingersold Rand Compressor blew up twice, cheap Chinese ****. Ingersold rand would not stand behind their product. Lesson learned the hard way.
 
Flyguytki said:
IMHO If I were going to spend almost $400 on a 30 gallon compressor I would spend the extra 40 and get the 60 gallon. I absolutely love mine, takes about 15 minutes to fill and with normal use it will kick on maybe once or twice an hour for another 2 min or so. This would only work tho if you have the space for it and a 240 plug available.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100083906/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


-david
Click to expand...

If I could get 220v in my garage this would be a no brainer and I'd get a 60+ gallon 2 stage but 120v seems to be a serious limiting factor here. 6.5CFM@90 is the best I've seen so far with the Makita.

Has anyone found a good ~12CFM@90 compressor that runs on 120 or am I just out of luck.
 
Any thoughts on this one?

Just started shopping for compressors. I certainly value the advice to shop craigslist, etc, but I found this Morgan reconditioned air compressor from Northern Tool priced at $299.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200396620_200396620

Any thoughts?

Edit: Just checked shipping costs through their website: $179 (ouch)
Total price: $478
This ends up being less than $100 cheaper than the comparable Ingersoll Rand model on their website with "free" shipping:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_158284_158284

"If it sounds too good to be true..."
Gonna keep looking
 
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I'm in the market for a compressor as well, but I'm going with the 220v route.

Here's what I think I'm going to get. While I'd love a 60gal size, I need one that is on wheels to move it around. This one is one of the few that puts out 10+cfm and is on wheels. I don't think the tank size will be a problem, but it definitely will kick on more often.

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-VT6271-Air-Compressor/p87.html



However, if you are limited to 110v, the highest CFM rating I've seen is 7.1, and it's on this:

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Chicago-Pneumatic-RCP-226VP-Air-Compressor/p2041.html


It ain't cheap at over six bills, though.
 
I ended up going with the Big Makita, ~$450.

I'll get it next week and see if I need a bigger tank, I'm hoping I can find a cheap decent sized tank with a dead chinese oiless pump on top of it.
 
I'm finishing the wings and this has been plenty even when using a pneumatic die grinder, air drill or rivet squeezer. I'm sure I'll need more for painting but I made my air lines in the garage so I can add another compressor to boost the cfm. This one is belt driven, oil fed, cast iron twin cylinder, 5.5cfm @90psi, 115v and 20 gallon. Cost $160 on craigslist almost new.

Snapshot_20090730.jpg
 
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Compressors

1911pilot said:
If I could get 220v in my garage this would be a no brainer and I'd get a 60+ gallon 2 stage but 120v seems to be a serious limiting factor here. 6.5CFM@90 is the best I've seen so far with the Makita.

Has anyone found a good ~12CFM@90 compressor that runs on 120 or am I just out of luck.
Click to expand...

You have to understand the sad fact that air compressor manufacturers tend to exagerate.

here is the truth.

A reciprocating air compressor is about the same efficiency no matter what manufacturer it comes from. If you can only get 6 cfm on an 120v supply (which cannot be any more than 20 amps running) then it doesn't matter what the manufacturer claims..you simply will not be able to get more than about 6cfm.

Same with horse power..I have a so called 5.5HP compressor..well lets see.

120V * 20A * 0.85 power factor = 2 kw / 0.746 = 2.7HP...Not even close to 5.5Hp.

My advice is choose the one you like the look of that demands the use of a 20A circuit..thats about the best you can do on a 120V circuit.

Frank
 
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