Van's Air Force
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Advantatges QB fuse / SB Fuse?
- Thread starter xavierm
- Start date
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
FUN. The fuse is, by far IMHO, the most enjoyable part of the build. Lots of new parts to fabricate and very little repetition, relative to the rest of the subkits save finishing. If I ever went QB, it would be for the wings, not the fuse. I say, save your money unless you have an excess of it!
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
If you want to get into the alodyning, painting and priming everything mode, then a QB is not for you
Plane krazy
Active Member
quick build
I have done both
Even on a part time build i can get the slow build to quick build state in 6 weeks it goes fast and fun it is not boring the wings are boring
most people that i have talked to in maine that went quick build was to prevent them from stalling on the project
I say if you want the most bang for your buck get the quick build wings and slow build fuse if you order both at the same time when the wings arrive you will be ready to fit them on the fuse plus when the wings are done they set for a while and if you have no room for them they can be in the way
quick build you have no options on priming
As stated it does build very straight
ken in maine
I have done both
Even on a part time build i can get the slow build to quick build state in 6 weeks it goes fast and fun it is not boring the wings are boring
most people that i have talked to in maine that went quick build was to prevent them from stalling on the project
I say if you want the most bang for your buck get the quick build wings and slow build fuse if you order both at the same time when the wings arrive you will be ready to fit them on the fuse plus when the wings are done they set for a while and if you have no room for them they can be in the way
quick build you have no options on priming
As stated it does build very straight
ken in maine
robertahegy
Moderator/Tech Counselor
I did the full QB kit but I agree that the fuselage slow build is better than the wings with all the tank sealant mess. I also hate doing virtually the same thing twice. If you need to save some money, I would go QB wings and slow build fuselage.
Roberta
Roberta
Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
Rivetting assistance
In the end it all comes down to quality of construction. If you want to build a Slow Build that is equal to or better quality than a Quick Build you will need to rivet large sections of the wings and fuselage two-up. And you will need to do it with an experienced rivetting partner.
If you attempt to do all of the rivetting on your own (or even most of it) you will NEVER achieve QB quality because QBs are rivetted two-up by trained personnel.
The problem I see for many SB builders is that they struggle to get good rivetting partners on an ongoing and timely basis. Lots of people are enthusiastic to help with rivetting but after a few hours the novelty quickly wears off and they disappear into the forest. This leads to you using a succession of inexperienced helpers...and that results in damage and poor quality.
The other problem is getting rivetting assistance exactly when you need it. You're at the mercy of the market so to speak. And so many SB builders when faced with a wait of perhaps days or even weeks before some-one will assist them opt instead to rivet in difficult areas on their own.....with more resultant damage.
My advice would be to go QB if you do not have access to a couple of friends or family that you could train up and who would be prepared at short notice to give you extended assistance over a period of years.
Put it this way....if you go SB you'll soon find out how many REALLY good friends you have !!!!
In the end it all comes down to quality of construction. If you want to build a Slow Build that is equal to or better quality than a Quick Build you will need to rivet large sections of the wings and fuselage two-up. And you will need to do it with an experienced rivetting partner.
If you attempt to do all of the rivetting on your own (or even most of it) you will NEVER achieve QB quality because QBs are rivetted two-up by trained personnel.
The problem I see for many SB builders is that they struggle to get good rivetting partners on an ongoing and timely basis. Lots of people are enthusiastic to help with rivetting but after a few hours the novelty quickly wears off and they disappear into the forest. This leads to you using a succession of inexperienced helpers...and that results in damage and poor quality.
The other problem is getting rivetting assistance exactly when you need it. You're at the mercy of the market so to speak. And so many SB builders when faced with a wait of perhaps days or even weeks before some-one will assist them opt instead to rivet in difficult areas on their own.....with more resultant damage.
My advice would be to go QB if you do not have access to a couple of friends or family that you could train up and who would be prepared at short notice to give you extended assistance over a period of years.
Put it this way....if you go SB you'll soon find out how many REALLY good friends you have !!!!
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N282S
Well Known Member
qb
I did slow wings and qb fuse. I had to wait an additional TEN WEEKS over and above what Vans originally quoted on the fuse. Then, I was finished with the wings and emp and all the glass tip work and still no fuse. That totalled 3 1/2 months with nothing to build while waiting on the fuse. Had I just gone with the standard fuse, I would have been both time and money ahead.
I did slow wings and qb fuse. I had to wait an additional TEN WEEKS over and above what Vans originally quoted on the fuse. Then, I was finished with the wings and emp and all the glass tip work and still no fuse. That totalled 3 1/2 months with nothing to build while waiting on the fuse. Had I just gone with the standard fuse, I would have been both time and money ahead.
Rick6a
Well Known Member
Matched hole construction has dramatically changed the way we build airplanes. Prior to its inception, I could understand how some builders not particularly in love with sheet metal construction would elect to go with the quickbuild option. As I progressed with the matched hole -8 project I found myself thinking I'd better order the next kit and the next kit faster than originally anticipated lest I find myself out of work, waiting on parts.
I am the type who loves building as much as flying. I HAVE to work with my hands and the quickbuild option was never considered not so much for its substantial cost premium but because I draw a certain measure of satisfaction knowing I shot all those rivets. In addition, the quickbuild lacks things I prefer including epoxy priming individual parts prior to assembling. As to quickbuild fuel tanks, a capacitive sending system (another of my preferences) is out of the question and some quality issues with premade fuel tanks have been reported now and again. A person who plods through standard sub-kits learns a heck of a lot along the way and develops sheet metal skills that serve that builder well as the project progresses. Interestingly, I have known a few builders to go the quickbuild route and take far longer to complete (if at all) compared to their standard kit brethren. It can be overwhelming for a person with no prior sheet metal experience to view contents of the opened crate and ask themselves, "What did I get myself into?" and "Geez, where do I start?"
I do not subscribe to the notion that a high quality rivet job can only be accomplished with a two man team as is routinely done using foreign labor. The level of quality will always depend on how skilled you are and the people helping you are. I've helped several builders shoot rivets that I thought were so easy to access alone that I personally wouldn't bother asking for assistance. Working mostly alone I set approximately 90-95% of all the rivets solo. For the small percentage of rivets I could not physically reach, my wife helped. I have yet to see ANY quickbuild kit that approaches the level of quality I expect from myself, but in fairness for a long time I pounded production rivets into place for a living. I can be "detail oriented" and while Van will not ship an unsafe quickbuild, upon casual observation I have seen many instances of defective rivets, marginal rivets, gaps, riding conditions, bent flanges and other defects I would not accept if it be my airplane. Van's has openly commented that quickbuild quality is not show quality. Still, Van's quickbuild option has found a sizable market because many builders don't care about such things or are time challenged. For those people quickbuild quality is perfectly acceptable. They just want to get up and flying as fast as possible and who can blame them for that?
I am the type who loves building as much as flying. I HAVE to work with my hands and the quickbuild option was never considered not so much for its substantial cost premium but because I draw a certain measure of satisfaction knowing I shot all those rivets. In addition, the quickbuild lacks things I prefer including epoxy priming individual parts prior to assembling. As to quickbuild fuel tanks, a capacitive sending system (another of my preferences) is out of the question and some quality issues with premade fuel tanks have been reported now and again. A person who plods through standard sub-kits learns a heck of a lot along the way and develops sheet metal skills that serve that builder well as the project progresses. Interestingly, I have known a few builders to go the quickbuild route and take far longer to complete (if at all) compared to their standard kit brethren. It can be overwhelming for a person with no prior sheet metal experience to view contents of the opened crate and ask themselves, "What did I get myself into?" and "Geez, where do I start?"
I do not subscribe to the notion that a high quality rivet job can only be accomplished with a two man team as is routinely done using foreign labor. The level of quality will always depend on how skilled you are and the people helping you are. I've helped several builders shoot rivets that I thought were so easy to access alone that I personally wouldn't bother asking for assistance. Working mostly alone I set approximately 90-95% of all the rivets solo. For the small percentage of rivets I could not physically reach, my wife helped. I have yet to see ANY quickbuild kit that approaches the level of quality I expect from myself, but in fairness for a long time I pounded production rivets into place for a living. I can be "detail oriented" and while Van will not ship an unsafe quickbuild, upon casual observation I have seen many instances of defective rivets, marginal rivets, gaps, riding conditions, bent flanges and other defects I would not accept if it be my airplane. Van's has openly commented that quickbuild quality is not show quality. Still, Van's quickbuild option has found a sizable market because many builders don't care about such things or are time challenged. For those people quickbuild quality is perfectly acceptable. They just want to get up and flying as fast as possible and who can blame them for that?
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This is exactly the path I have taken. Building the fuse is actually 'Fun'! I should be starting the final Fuse build (starting to rivet) in another week or so.
John Courte
Well Known Member
Time.
Like others have said, the QB process saves a significant amount of time. Every so often, I have workweeks of 70 hours or more, so time is the scarcity, more so than money. If I was retired or independently wealthy, or at least independently comfortable, I'd probably do the SB fuse, but I'd definitely do QB wings, or at least pre-built tanks. The proseal isn't bad once you learn to move it around without getting it all over everything, and the repetitive tasks are OK, because you can just zone out and do them, but not too deeply or you have holes where you don't want them.
Another disadvantage is the sifting through the plans and manual to see what's been done or not. In that respect, it's like picking up someone else's project. You really need to go through the manual and check off the steps in the plans compared to what's been completed, and whether or not they did it right at the factory.
On the other hand, it's REALLY cool to see the big shiny airplane-shape come off the truck and get wheeled into the shop!
Like others have said, the QB process saves a significant amount of time. Every so often, I have workweeks of 70 hours or more, so time is the scarcity, more so than money. If I was retired or independently wealthy, or at least independently comfortable, I'd probably do the SB fuse, but I'd definitely do QB wings, or at least pre-built tanks. The proseal isn't bad once you learn to move it around without getting it all over everything, and the repetitive tasks are OK, because you can just zone out and do them, but not too deeply or you have holes where you don't want them.
Another disadvantage is the sifting through the plans and manual to see what's been done or not. In that respect, it's like picking up someone else's project. You really need to go through the manual and check off the steps in the plans compared to what's been completed, and whether or not they did it right at the factory.
On the other hand, it's REALLY cool to see the big shiny airplane-shape come off the truck and get wheeled into the shop!
Flying Scotsman
Well Known Member
My neighbor's 8 was a QB fuse, SB everything else. It was cool to see the fuselage show up and all...getting to sit in it and make airplane noises . And, it saved quite a bit of time, and we didn't notice any workmanship problems (in fact, some aspects of it were *extremely* well done).
I'm now working on my -7A fuselage SB, and I have to admit...this *is* a fun part. BIG pieces going together, and by ****, it's starting to *look* like an airplane (albeit upside down ). Maybe it's because by the time we got to the right wing on this plane, that meant we were riveting the 4th wing. As neat as it was to see my *own* wings completed, have to admit...after the first one, well, there wasn't much new and exciting there...just a lot of drudgery in all the prep work and such.
I just can't see myself paying the premium, though, for a QB anything...there's no schedule or milestones that I'm trying to rush towards, so if it takes a little longer, it just does...
. And, it saved quite a bit of time, and we didn't notice any workmanship problems (in fact, some aspects of it were *extremely* well done).I'm now working on my -7A fuselage SB, and I have to admit...this *is* a fun part. BIG pieces going together, and by ****, it's starting to *look* like an airplane (albeit upside down
). Maybe it's because by the time we got to the right wing on this plane, that meant we were riveting the 4th wing. As neat as it was to see my *own* wings completed, have to admit...after the first one, well, there wasn't much new and exciting there...just a lot of drudgery in all the prep work and such.I just can't see myself paying the premium, though, for a QB anything...there's no schedule or milestones that I'm trying to rush towards, so if it takes a little longer, it just does...
BlackRV7
Well Known Member
I'm in the corner or QB wings and slow build fuselage. I easily had the fuselage to the QB stage in the time it would have taken to get the QB fuselage shipped. I did top quality riveting mostly by myself. It is very easy to do most of the riveting on the fuselage by yourself. Save the extra money, I enjoyed building the fuselage.
Good luck,
Good luck,
