Van's Air Force
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9A Landing Pattern "Numbers"
- Thread starter n815vp
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tc1234c
Well Known Member
I did transition training with Mike Seager in RV-6A. His advise is to pull idle when abeam the number. Drop all flaps and maintain 65 kts until over the threshold.
After flying for awhile, I changed my procedure. I fly downwind at 100-110 kts. Abeam number, pull idle and raise the nose to reduce the speed. At 90 kts drop flap down 10 degrees. Turning base, trim for 80 kts and drop all flaps. Turning final, trim for 70 kts. Close to the runway reduce to 65 kts. When fly a close pattern, it will be necessary to slip down. 9 does not sink like 6. If too high and not welling to slip, just raise the flap and go around. With the flaps down, my 9A will not accelerate beyond 85 kts. Do remember to adjust your idle to 550 rpm instead of the usually 650 rpm. If you carry more than 70 kts over the threshold, 9 will float a long way. In the pattern, just focus on air speed and don't be bothered by the rpm.
What Mike taught me works well. However, I prefer to go a little faster on downwind and base.
Best wishes on your first flight.
After flying for awhile, I changed my procedure. I fly downwind at 100-110 kts. Abeam number, pull idle and raise the nose to reduce the speed. At 90 kts drop flap down 10 degrees. Turning base, trim for 80 kts and drop all flaps. Turning final, trim for 70 kts. Close to the runway reduce to 65 kts. When fly a close pattern, it will be necessary to slip down. 9 does not sink like 6. If too high and not welling to slip, just raise the flap and go around. With the flaps down, my 9A will not accelerate beyond 85 kts. Do remember to adjust your idle to 550 rpm instead of the usually 650 rpm. If you carry more than 70 kts over the threshold, 9 will float a long way. In the pattern, just focus on air speed and don't be bothered by the rpm.
What Mike taught me works well. However, I prefer to go a little faster on downwind and base.
Best wishes on your first flight.
rv9aviator
Well Known Member
You need specific info for a nine. The flaps are huge. I'm not flying yet so won't comment except to say the 9 flies different than the others in some respects.
Geico266
Well Known Member
I agree with Ted & Jim. I have 400 hours flying in a 9A, and it is a real nice to fly. If you can fly a 6A a 9A will be a welcome, pleasant surprise.
Down wind 100 MPH ( -200' from pattern altitude)
Flaps speed 90 MPH (Full Flaps every landing for me)
Base 80 MPH (25% flaps)
Final 60-70 MPH (100% Flaps)
Touchdown 55 MPH
These are what I remember, but it will get you close enough to learn your plane. Stalls start a noticeable buffet, and a mushy break. Relax back pressure and you are flying again. Very easy plane to fly & land. A real joy to fly. Landings become almost boring and I would try to get into different configurations, slips, and attitudes to see if I could make them interesting. I could make a landing out of just about anything, as the controls are very precise in ground effect. Greased landings are common. Hold the nose gear off as long as possible (looks cool, and is good for the gear) Hold or add a touch of power during flair. If things don't look right and the airspeed is low add power and your flying again.
There is another 9A on my field and the pilot reports similar as above.
Have confidence in your skills after learning a 6A, and you'll be just fine. The 9A is very forgiving. It's all RV for sure, nimble, quick, and fun to fly, just less twitchyness in the air, and docile when landing. A perfect blend for a sport plane IMHO.
The 9A & 10 fly just about the same.
Hope this helps. Good luck, keep us informed. I would like to hear your own impressions after 10-12 hours.
Down wind 100 MPH ( -200' from pattern altitude)
Flaps speed 90 MPH (Full Flaps every landing for me)
Base 80 MPH (25% flaps)
Final 60-70 MPH (100% Flaps)
Touchdown 55 MPH
These are what I remember, but it will get you close enough to learn your plane. Stalls start a noticeable buffet, and a mushy break. Relax back pressure and you are flying again. Very easy plane to fly & land. A real joy to fly. Landings become almost boring and I would try to get into different configurations, slips, and attitudes to see if I could make them interesting. I could make a landing out of just about anything, as the controls are very precise in ground effect. Greased landings are common. Hold the nose gear off as long as possible (looks cool, and is good for the gear) Hold or add a touch of power during flair. If things don't look right and the airspeed is low add power and your flying again.
There is another 9A on my field and the pilot reports similar as above.
Have confidence in your skills after learning a 6A, and you'll be just fine. The 9A is very forgiving. It's all RV for sure, nimble, quick, and fun to fly, just less twitchyness in the air, and docile when landing. A perfect blend for a sport plane IMHO.
The 9A & 10 fly just about the same.
Hope this helps. Good luck, keep us informed. I would like to hear your own impressions after 10-12 hours.
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petehowell
Well Known Member
No Flap Landings
Ted and Larry have good numbers and I agree the 9 is a real dream to land.
My favorite way to land is no flap, 80 mph. When you have plenty of runway, you can grease it on and hold the nose up as long as you want. I do a nice long wheelie all the way down then ease the nose down and turn off at the end. Our local tower likes to watch and knows where I park so they usually just clear me to land long and turn off at the end. (traffic permitting)
Full flaps and a slip will get you down right quick and short when the need arises.
It really is a great plane to land, the wing will hang in there a long time in ground effect.
Ted and Larry have good numbers and I agree the 9 is a real dream to land.
My favorite way to land is no flap, 80 mph. When you have plenty of runway, you can grease it on and hold the nose up as long as you want. I do a nice long wheelie all the way down then ease the nose down and turn off at the end. Our local tower likes to watch and knows where I park so they usually just clear me to land long and turn off at the end. (traffic permitting)
Full flaps and a slip will get you down right quick and short when the need arises.
It really is a great plane to land, the wing will hang in there a long time in ground effect.
N941WR
Legacy Member
I have similar numbers.
90 MPH on downwind. Abeam the numbers in go all the flaps and I keep my patters close.
Trim for 70 MPH if I have two aboard. Solo I trim for 65 MPH. (65 MPH w/ two on board doesn't leave you a lot of energy for the flair.)
If high, I slip it at 70 MPH.
You will notice the ground effect in the -9 like no other airplane I've flown! This thing just floats and floats.
When wheel landing, don't be in a hurry to force the tail down or you will find yourself flying again in a hurry. Just let it drop on its own.
Also when wheel landing, the thing will just roll forever! I fly out of a 2300 foot runway and it will roll the full length on the wheels. Three point it and I can turn around mid field w/o touching the brakes.
One other advantage to the -9. With 145 hours on it now, the tires still look brand new.
90 MPH on downwind. Abeam the numbers in go all the flaps and I keep my patters close.
Trim for 70 MPH if I have two aboard. Solo I trim for 65 MPH. (65 MPH w/ two on board doesn't leave you a lot of energy for the flair.)
If high, I slip it at 70 MPH.
You will notice the ground effect in the -9 like no other airplane I've flown! This thing just floats and floats.
When wheel landing, don't be in a hurry to force the tail down or you will find yourself flying again in a hurry. Just let it drop on its own.
Also when wheel landing, the thing will just roll forever! I fly out of a 2300 foot runway and it will roll the full length on the wheels. Three point it and I can turn around mid field w/o touching the brakes.
One other advantage to the -9. With 145 hours on it now, the tires still look brand new.
Steve Brown
Well Known Member
In Knots
So far, I never use partial flaps in my airplane for landing. The reason is that I have no clear indication of flap setting except at zero and full. I don't like guessing.
If the wind gets above 15kts, is gusting to greater than about 20 kts, has gust factor greater than about 10kts, or crosswind component of about 10 kts or more, I land no flaps. I fly short final 70kts + half gust factor. I slow down on the downwind to about 80-90 kts. Rest of the slowing on final, slipping as necessary to slow & get down because I try to keep the pattern about the same size as with flaps. I do my slipping at about 80kts or more, because I don't like the feel of it below that speed in this airplane.
All other times I use full flaps. Fly on downwind to 90kts and start adding a little flaps near abeam numbers while maintaining altitude. Once speed drops below 80 kts - full flaps. Then 75 kts, 65kts on final, 60kts short final. My calculator tells me I could use 55kts short final if I really need to land short, but I haven't tried it.
Crosswind or gusty wind landings: Now that I'm used to the airplane (I have about 112 hrs in it) I find I can handle crosswinds and gusty conditions much more proficiently than in other airplanes I've flown. I'm surprised because of the light weight and low stall speeds, but I think the reason is control authority and responsiveness. I know there is a limit, but so far whatever the wind has done to me, I seem to be able to undo with the controls.
On stall characteristics, I've had a different experience than some.
Clean stall is a non-event in my airplane at about 51kts. I have a note in my POH that the number needs more checking. It was so gentle when I did it there is some ambiguity.
Full flaps my POH number is 43 at gross, derived mathematically from the under gross test I did. There was no ambiguity for the full flap stall. It broke pretty sharply in a falling-out-of-the-sky sort of way. I wouldn't want that to happen accidentally & close to the ground. I have some doubt about the speed because I was at the bottom end of my ASI.
So far, I never use partial flaps in my airplane for landing. The reason is that I have no clear indication of flap setting except at zero and full. I don't like guessing.
If the wind gets above 15kts, is gusting to greater than about 20 kts, has gust factor greater than about 10kts, or crosswind component of about 10 kts or more, I land no flaps. I fly short final 70kts + half gust factor. I slow down on the downwind to about 80-90 kts. Rest of the slowing on final, slipping as necessary to slow & get down because I try to keep the pattern about the same size as with flaps. I do my slipping at about 80kts or more, because I don't like the feel of it below that speed in this airplane.
All other times I use full flaps. Fly on downwind to 90kts and start adding a little flaps near abeam numbers while maintaining altitude. Once speed drops below 80 kts - full flaps. Then 75 kts, 65kts on final, 60kts short final. My calculator tells me I could use 55kts short final if I really need to land short, but I haven't tried it.
Crosswind or gusty wind landings: Now that I'm used to the airplane (I have about 112 hrs in it) I find I can handle crosswinds and gusty conditions much more proficiently than in other airplanes I've flown. I'm surprised because of the light weight and low stall speeds, but I think the reason is control authority and responsiveness. I know there is a limit, but so far whatever the wind has done to me, I seem to be able to undo with the controls.
On stall characteristics, I've had a different experience than some.
Clean stall is a non-event in my airplane at about 51kts. I have a note in my POH that the number needs more checking. It was so gentle when I did it there is some ambiguity.
Full flaps my POH number is 43 at gross, derived mathematically from the under gross test I did. There was no ambiguity for the full flap stall. It broke pretty sharply in a falling-out-of-the-sky sort of way. I wouldn't want that to happen accidentally & close to the ground. I have some doubt about the speed because I was at the bottom end of my ASI.
I have about 100 hours in my 9A and agree on the numbers already posted. No more than 110mph on DW, slowing to 90 abeam the numbers. Pull power to 10" or so and 1/2 flaps. 80 on base with full flaps. 65-70 final, depending on weight and pull all power when the field is made. Too high, slow down, too low keep the speed up. Our home traffic pattern is 800 AGL. When using 1000' I just pull power more/earlier rather than extend DW. Slipping is very effective at 70-75, although slowing to 60 (with proper altitude) works well too. I use side slip for crosswind control but have used "crab and kick" and it works as well. Just don't think it is a good technique.
On touchdown I hit the "up" button on the flaps as you can keep the nosewheel up longer. Float can be a problem, but the 9A is easy to keep on line.
Keep in mind these speeds are for our aircraft and techniques, not yours. Practicing with a little extra speed won't get you killed, only give you more float. Getting too slow can. Stall warning is there, but not excessive, especially with flaps down. It is easier than a 7 (never flew a 6.) Fly safe.
Bob Kelly
On touchdown I hit the "up" button on the flaps as you can keep the nosewheel up longer. Float can be a problem, but the 9A is easy to keep on line.
Keep in mind these speeds are for our aircraft and techniques, not yours. Practicing with a little extra speed won't get you killed, only give you more float. Getting too slow can. Stall warning is there, but not excessive, especially with flaps down. It is easier than a 7 (never flew a 6.) Fly safe.
Bob Kelly
tc1234c
Well Known Member
It seems that I fly my pattern a little faster than most others. After so many landings at my home field, I can turn off at 500 ft consistently. I did it too often and worn out my tires (need brake to stop). Now I just roll down the runway another 2000' for the next turn off. After touching down, I add a little power to keep my nose in the air until 300'-400' from the turn off. Soon the nose drop and I get off the active.
I found 9A much easier to land. In my Piper and Cessna days, too often I had three-point landing. I also afraid of cross-wind. With 9A, tourch down and rolling, my nose is alway in the air. During take off roll, I also keep my nose wheel in the air. My local friends commented that my 9A rolling down the runway looking like a tail dragger. It handles cross wind much better. I am not bothered by 20 some kts cross wind. The big rudder has so much authority. However, when parked, the big rudder attract wind gust too! I am more afraid of wind gust when my 9A is parked then in flight.
I found 9A much easier to land. In my Piper and Cessna days, too often I had three-point landing. I also afraid of cross-wind. With 9A, tourch down and rolling, my nose is alway in the air. During take off roll, I also keep my nose wheel in the air. My local friends commented that my 9A rolling down the runway looking like a tail dragger. It handles cross wind much better. I am not bothered by 20 some kts cross wind. The big rudder has so much authority. However, when parked, the big rudder attract wind gust too! I am more afraid of wind gust when my 9A is parked then in flight.
339A
Well Known Member
Interesting thread here. I have about 400 landings and 370 hours on my 9A now. So what have I learned about landing a 9?
Well I can agree with most of what has been posted here so far as it relates to landing speeds and numbers. I use mph for all my IAS. My full flap stall is 46 mph.
It seems as though I never do full box patterns anymore when landing. I am eithier straight in or enter on a base leg etc. The one main item to contend with, is slowing the 9A down with a fixed pitch prop. This is the first item on the list and must be dealt with early, doing this makes landing so much easier. If you are fast coming into the pattern you will be wishing you started slowing down sooner.
Since I have done this so many times (being fast) I have had to develop ways to correct for my poor planning! Pulling up works good but OMG now I'm high...what to do? As others have said slipping the 9 works very well and I use this more often than not in order to lose altitude. I do not lose speed. If the power has been pulled and I am on final once the speed drops to 65 she will sink like a stone 600 FPM or better, now I am correcting for that. If I get into the flair in this condition I better be adding power or else contact with terra firma will be hard. Ask me how I know.
Those are the ways to correct for a bad setup to a landing and they work quite well I use them alot.
The best way to land the 9? Slow down early. The 9 flys great at 70 and I can do this much to the chagrin of the other RV's. Flying that slow on downwind seems to scare most RV drivers. I don't normally do it that way but it can be done. Somewhere in the 85 to 90 regime is best on downwind adding some flaps to keep it there. Continue slowing down through base and final. Final at 70 is good. Carrying a little power to keep the sink at 250 -300 works real nice. Now I am set up to flair at 60 - 65 and pull power. Touchdowns at 50 to 55 are slick.
Depending on where I want to land, if it is a long runway, I might just keep flying at 70 until I want to land. Once on the ground holding the nose off and running that way is fun. Also a good rudder skill builder. Add a little power and see how long I can drive it on the mains. Till I'm ready to let the nose down.
As for crosswind landings. I have to agree that the direct crosswinds are not that a big deal in the 9. I tend to not use as much flaps and will carry more power in this instance but 20 kt crosswinds don't bother me. It is more of a bear to taxi than to land. That big vertical stab and rudder will get pushed all over the place taxiing.
Just my observations flying mine YMMV.
Well I can agree with most of what has been posted here so far as it relates to landing speeds and numbers. I use mph for all my IAS. My full flap stall is 46 mph.
It seems as though I never do full box patterns anymore when landing. I am eithier straight in or enter on a base leg etc. The one main item to contend with, is slowing the 9A down with a fixed pitch prop. This is the first item on the list and must be dealt with early, doing this makes landing so much easier. If you are fast coming into the pattern you will be wishing you started slowing down sooner.
Since I have done this so many times (being fast) I have had to develop ways to correct for my poor planning! Pulling up works good but OMG now I'm high...what to do? As others have said slipping the 9 works very well and I use this more often than not in order to lose altitude. I do not lose speed. If the power has been pulled and I am on final once the speed drops to 65 she will sink like a stone 600 FPM or better, now I am correcting for that. If I get into the flair in this condition I better be adding power or else contact with terra firma will be hard. Ask me how I know.
Those are the ways to correct for a bad setup to a landing and they work quite well I use them alot.
The best way to land the 9? Slow down early. The 9 flys great at 70 and I can do this much to the chagrin of the other RV's. Flying that slow on downwind seems to scare most RV drivers. I don't normally do it that way but it can be done. Somewhere in the 85 to 90 regime is best on downwind adding some flaps to keep it there. Continue slowing down through base and final. Final at 70 is good. Carrying a little power to keep the sink at 250 -300 works real nice. Now I am set up to flair at 60 - 65 and pull power. Touchdowns at 50 to 55 are slick.Depending on where I want to land, if it is a long runway, I might just keep flying at 70 until I want to land. Once on the ground holding the nose off and running that way is fun. Also a good rudder skill builder. Add a little power and see how long I can drive it on the mains. Till I'm ready to let the nose down.
As for crosswind landings. I have to agree that the direct crosswinds are not that a big deal in the 9. I tend to not use as much flaps and will carry more power in this instance but 20 kt crosswinds don't bother me. It is more of a bear to taxi than to land. That big vertical stab and rudder will get pushed all over the place taxiing.
Just my observations flying mine YMMV.
bsacks05
Well Known Member
After 225 hours in "Catalina" I am very confident in my landing abilities. That was not true during the first 40 hours however. Back then I tended to come in too hot, then get impatient and not use enough finesse on the stick back pressure. This usually led to a bounce and go around.
Now, I am short final no more than 70 mph and approaching or at 65 over the numbers. I still float in ground effect for a while, but this gives me time to focus on the smooth application of back pressure until touchdown. I wheel land 98% of the time because the view is better and it is just more fun.
The most important things I have learned in landing my -9 is to be PATIENT and not force things to happen. Also, if I do happen to get a significant bounce I just add about 100 rpm of power which puts enough air under those beautiful wings to bring me gently back down.
Now, I am short final no more than 70 mph and approaching or at 65 over the numbers. I still float in ground effect for a while, but this gives me time to focus on the smooth application of back pressure until touchdown. I wheel land 98% of the time because the view is better and it is just more fun.
The most important things I have learned in landing my -9 is to be PATIENT and not force things to happen. Also, if I do happen to get a significant bounce I just add about 100 rpm of power which puts enough air under those beautiful wings to bring me gently back down.
pmccoy
Well Known Member
Love this thread
I'm still building, but this thread is great inspiration to keep pounding those rivets! Descriptions of the landing techniques are great. I am starting to practice what I have read with X-Plane flight sim. One of these days... my 9A will be done and I can add to the discussion. Thanks
I'm still building, but this thread is great inspiration to keep pounding those rivets! Descriptions of the landing techniques are great. I am starting to practice what I have read with X-Plane flight sim. One of these days... my 9A will be done and I can add to the discussion. Thanks
Bryan Wood
Well Known Member
80mph Landing video
Okay, please no flames from other RV-9A pilots. (We have argued the 80mph final and that isn't the intent here. It is to show the runway usage by landing fast.) Here is an 80mph base and final in a 9A at or close to gross. Sherri and I, and our dog, large oxygen bottle, and our baggage. I don't remember the fuel, but should have been about 1/2 tanks or better by the time we landed here.
The audio is picking up a hum from the ignition so you can get an idea of the throttle as it comes off for flap speed along with a gentle pitch up to slow down. As the flaps come down the nose is brought back down and the plane is trimmed to 80mph for the base and final. I ALWAYS fly final at 80mph when heavy and try to let down very soft. The extra speed allows control of the nosewheel until I'm ready to set it down. Since there is plenty of runway I'll use some and not ride the brakes. Oh yeah, I know, the downwind was kind of wide.
http://www.n994w.com/video8.htm
Okay, please no flames from other RV-9A pilots. (We have argued the 80mph final and that isn't the intent here. It is to show the runway usage by landing fast.) Here is an 80mph base and final in a 9A at or close to gross. Sherri and I, and our dog, large oxygen bottle, and our baggage. I don't remember the fuel, but should have been about 1/2 tanks or better by the time we landed here.
The audio is picking up a hum from the ignition so you can get an idea of the throttle as it comes off for flap speed along with a gentle pitch up to slow down. As the flaps come down the nose is brought back down and the plane is trimmed to 80mph for the base and final. I ALWAYS fly final at 80mph when heavy and try to let down very soft. The extra speed allows control of the nosewheel until I'm ready to set it down. Since there is plenty of runway I'll use some and not ride the brakes. Oh yeah, I know, the downwind was kind of wide.
http://www.n994w.com/video8.htm
Pattern Numbers
100 hrs 9A - 0320 150 HP Catto 3 Blade FP prop.
85 MPH on Downwind.
Pull power to idle and run the first 10 degrees of flaps abeam the numbers.
Turn base when your touchdown point is 45 degrees behind you. Slow to 75 MPH for the base leg.
Check altitude at 600 feet agl when the turn is complete. Run in the second notch of flaps to 20 degrees.
Turn final, reduce speed to 65 MPH.
When the field is made run in the final flaps to full.
Cross the numbers at 55 MPH and experience a well controlled landing with no tendency to float down the field. Hold the nose gear off until the stick is full aft and it gently touches down.
Works perfectly every time. Lets you mix in very nicely with the Cessna 150s and 172s poking around the pattern.
keith
100 hrs 9A - 0320 150 HP Catto 3 Blade FP prop.
85 MPH on Downwind.
Pull power to idle and run the first 10 degrees of flaps abeam the numbers.
Turn base when your touchdown point is 45 degrees behind you. Slow to 75 MPH for the base leg.
Check altitude at 600 feet agl when the turn is complete. Run in the second notch of flaps to 20 degrees.
Turn final, reduce speed to 65 MPH.
When the field is made run in the final flaps to full.
Cross the numbers at 55 MPH and experience a well controlled landing with no tendency to float down the field. Hold the nose gear off until the stick is full aft and it gently touches down.
Works perfectly every time. Lets you mix in very nicely with the Cessna 150s and 172s poking around the pattern.
keith
