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160 HP Performance

jrsites

Well Known Member
I can't believe the question hasn't been asked before, but I've dutifully searched the forum and can't find any indication that it has:

Would anyone who has an O-320 on their 7/7A be willing to share some performance numbers?

And would anyone with sage advice (or even just firmly held personal opinions) as to the benefits and drawbacks of going with 160hp instead of 180hp be willing to hold forth?
 
If every data point helps, here's one:

RV-6, 160 hp, cruise pitched Aymar Demuth prop, day/night VFR, low drag wheelpants and gear leg fairings. Airframe weighs 1033 lbs.

Top speed (2800 rpm) 175+ knots under 3,000'.

Typical cruise: 155-160 knots TAS at 8,000 -12,000' @ 8 gph. Nominally 65% power.

Climb at light weight (<1,300 lbs) ~1750 fpm.

Climb at 1,675 lb gross ~1,000 fpm.

The three big performance options you have are:

1) Weight minimization by omitting bells and whistles, soundproofing, and extra paint. Light weight will pay off in climb performance, handling qualities, and useful load.

2) Fixed pitch vs Constant speed - The constant speed prop will really help with takeoff acceleration, climb, and deceleration on landing. It can also be used to optimize the aircraft's efficiency in cruise.

3) Horsepower. Look at Van's spec's. 20 hp doesn't do a lot to the speeds, but makes a real difference in climb rate.

I believe a 160 hp/constant speed airplane will outperform a 180 hp, fixed pitch airplane in all regimes except right around the design point for the fixed pitch prop.
 
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jrsites said:
I can't believe the question hasn't been asked before, but I've dutifully searched the forum and can't find any indication that it has
I was driving tonight and thought I needed to ask this question. Great minds think alike :D

I'm interested in all performance #'s but more specifically the best economy...dreaming about an arround the world trip and wondering how much gas can one possibly fit into an RV and how far will that take you.

Edit: To make the data points more reliable, please include all modifications you have (SJ cowls, type of ignition, exhaust...)
 
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Jon Johannson

Hi Paul,
Visit www.vansaircraft.com and click on Jon Johannson in the lower right column. It tells the round-the-world story.

He also has a book he wrote documenting the changes to his RV 4 and the TWO round-the-world-solo trips he made; one going east; one going west, from Oz!......BTW, He has/had 18 hours of fuel for the 160 Lyc!! :eek:
Great reading,
Regards,
 
I cruise about 180 mph at 8000'. Top speed was about 203 mph at seal level before topping my engine a few months back. I may get another 5 mph now. Climb - fully loaded at sea level - 1000-1200 fpm. Me and 15 gals of gas - 2000-2200- fpm. Van's numbers are very reasonable.

On the good side, (non "H" series) O-320's seem to run cooler than the 360 series. Generally, they're cheaper initially.

One point of interest, I can outrun my buddy in his -6A by just a few mph. He has a brand spankin' new O-360 with a Sensenich FP prop. I have a 160-hp $3000 garage-rebuilt wonder turning a Hartzell CS prop.

I would personally go with the most horsepower I could afford on my next project. O-540 possibly.
 
If you are at sea level 160 hp should be fine. If you fly out of high elevations, more hp should be considered.
 
From a new guy

I have 4 (maybe its 5 now?) hours on my 7a with a 180HP IO360...Its been balanced and flowed and has the FF sump which i am told makes a few more ponies on the test stand....So actual power is ?????

I also flew the C/S 160HP rv6 for 5.5 hours during transition training.

Flying from sea level I can honestly say the 160HP 6 was one of the sweetest flying airplanes I have ever flown. With two of us and gas it had loads of performance and I remember seeing 170mph at 5k and that was something like 65% power (23squared). Climb was more than adequate.

It was like ...Line it up on the runway and nail it and its very easy to control.

Now to the RV7...Well, sure it blows the 6 away in performance and to be honest but I have to concentrate real hard as I gun the motor on take off...I wouldn't say its TOO much power but its certainly more THAN ADEQUATE and feels like it could bite you pretty hard if you screwed up.

Personally I think there is a lot of benefit in completly enjoying your airplane and not beng intimidated by a big motor would help.

Would I go for a smaller motor now?...Nah, probably not but I don't expect I'll get lazy anytime soon when it comes to shovelling on the coals.

Frank
 
pierre smith said:
Hi Paul,
Visit www.vansaircraft.com and click on Jon Johannson in the lower right column. It tells the round-the-world story.

He also has a book he wrote documenting the changes to his RV 4 and the TWO round-the-world-solo trips he made; one going east; one going west, from Oz!......BTW, He has/had 18 hours of fuel for the 160 Lyc!! :eek:
Great reading,
Regards,
I've already read his account and others. Once I start reading about one of them, I usually can't stop.
 
RV-6

As stated in a previous post, the primary effect of a 160 HP vs 180HP is going to be in climb rates. Secondary effects are slightly lower fuel burn rates, lower weight, and lower CHT & Oil temps. A well balanced C/S 320 with fuel injection from an efficiency standpoint, can get you some of the lowest fuel burn rates if you are able to get up high and run Lean of Peak.(~ 5 GPH @ 155 MPH). Oil and CHT temps seem to be more manageable on the 320 series engine also, although a lot depends on baffling, oil cooler design, etc.

In my -6, I selected a Aerosport IO-320-D1A with 9.2:1 pistons, LSI ignition, and Airflow Performance Fuel Injection. It makes ~170+ HP at sea level. The result is I can get a climb rate almost equal to a 180 HP, keep my temps down, and burn less fuel on long X/C's. Flat out WOT @ 3,000', I've seen 215 MPH indicated.

If I had it to do again, I'd look carefully at one of the stroker 340 series engines.
Your mileage may vary....

Joe Blank
RV-6
N6810B
 
Paul Thomas said:
I'm interested in all performance #'s but more specifically the best economy...

Well, I just got back to Lubbock from a trip to Colorado. I ran the numbers on my RV4 after two fill ups. 6.84 gph at TAS 172 knots in cruise. 160hp 0-320; metal Sensenich FP limited to 2600 rpm (I normally cruise at about 2500-2550); pressure recovery wheelpants; I cruised between 7000 and 13,500 feet. Today I saw 180 knots ground speed with a calm - slight tailwind at 9500 feet. 20"MP and 2540 rpm means about 65.5% of power. That's a little over 30 miles per gallon!
 
Well, Sir,

You must determine your own mindset. As you can see from the above, we've reestablished what you already know: generally, less yields less and more, more. Then, throw in all those little differences, and occassionally a more powerful rig will equal or use less fuel than a power train intended for economy. I know if I built a plane short of its power capacity, e.g., 320 when a 360 is mountable, intending to achieve Prius fuel economies, I would be mighty upset to be bested by a 360 ship at the pump. That's the risk you take trying to shave numbers in a race to minimums.

On the other hand, if initial costs and maintenance fears are not the true underlying issue, you can't easily retrofit a bigger rush down the runway and a bigger grin, as easily as clamping down the throttle for improved economy on a big engine already installed.

My -7 cruises above 10K at 7.2 gph and 193 from a O-360-A1A/dual EI/Superior sump, leaned a bit past peak. I also can easily slurp 10+ gph going 10 mph faster. Rocket friends who whine about running 15 inches to not leave me in the smog, achieve 10 gph from 540s that nominally are 15 gph engines.

My mindset? Strive for economy and stand a good chance of disappointment missing a nebulous target, or balls to the wall and so what if fuel costs are probably 5% more than what I might, maybe, could possibly, really ought to get from smaller displacement at the same speed?

The answer: YEE-HAH!

John Siebold
Boise, ID
 
John,

While you can run a big engine at a low power setting and get the same flow as a smaller engine running at a higher power setting, it's not that simple. Addionally we may have other reasons than simply saving a few $$ each flight, which is not a bad reason.

I often hear of "side by side" comparison when two aircraft flew in formation and the big engine used less gas. Should each have flown the same power setting in term of % of available power from their engine, the big engine would have gotten there quicker drinking more.

The smaller engine won't buy you the YEE-HAH! factor, but unless you've flown being the bigger engine that has it, you'll be perfectly happy being it; or just as happy as the guy with the guy with the bigger engine because we always need more power arh! arh! arh! ;)
 
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