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Current FAA Registration Intell…..

Ironflight said:
I agree that this has always been true in the past Scott - but as of the beginning of this year, that changed and mine took five months…for something that used to take a week! All is not well in OKC right now….
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I was responding to the comments related to the loooong delay in registration transfers being processed.

I agree things are messed up for new registrations.
I have no idea what has happened, but whatever it is, it should not be hard to fix since it wasn’t that long ago that I was able to tell my certification clients that the FAA was processing them in about 3 weeks from receiving the application.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
I was responding to the comments related to the loooong delay in registration transfers being processed.

I agree things are messed up for new registrations.
I have no idea what has happened, but whatever it is, it should not be hard to fix since it wasn’t that long ago that I was able to tell my certification clients that the FAA was processing them in about 3 weeks from receiving the application.
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Why beating around the bush? Probably staff cuts with the FAA. Disregard: politics!
 
Ironflight said:
All is not well in OKC right now….
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Indeed. The FAA is giving off copious warning signals of a bureaucracy under significant stress. I hope their (many) safety-critical functions aren’t as degraded as their “everyday red tape” procedures.
 
A big factor is not getting punted back to the far end of the line following a discrepancy, so take the time to make sure your paperwork is flawless at the first submission. For example, going back to Paul's original post, a Bill of Sale in the chain apparently didn't include the seller's title ("Owner", "President", etc). That will get it kicked back every time.

I recommend submitting a string of 8050-2's to document the train of ownership, rather than a letterhead bill of sale. With all due respect, we're dealing with paper pushers, so give them familiar paper! Compare each with the previous to be sure names and numbers all match. For example, if the 8050-2 transferring to me says the purchaser is "Daniel Horton", and I sign the next 8050-2 "Dan Horton" as seller, some poor bugger further down the chain may get his application for registration kicked back.

Perfect title paperwork is a major back room management issue in the auto business, as a seller often has a limited number of days to perfect a lien on behalf of a lender. The FAA registration folks and a state DMV are much alike...but there are 50 different DMV's, all of which managed to interpret the Uniform Title Act of 1989 differently.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
When this does become an issue is if someone makes a purchase of an aircraft and during that limbo time they wish to initiate any airworthiness related activity... such as amending operating limitations on an experimental amateur built.
There is no way for an owner to initiate a Airworthiness related application on there airplane that they legally own, until FAA Registration completes the ownership process and it shows up as registered to them in the public record.
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This is the reason that I was getting impatient! Took the Repairman's class and was wanting to get my the amended operating limitations updated so I can sign off the condition inspections.
 
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rvbuilder2002 said:
When this does become an issue is if someone makes a purchase of an aircraft and during that limbo time they wish to initiate any airworthiness related activity... such as amending operating limitations on an experimental amateur built.
There is no way for an owner to initiate a Airworthiness related application on there airplane that they legally own, until FAA Registration completes the ownership process and it shows up as registered to them in the public record.
Thankfully, the FAA puts a first order priority on new registration applications so that manufacturers (of which in a sense, home builders are manufacturers) can get new aircraft registered relatively quickly.
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YEP! Working one just like this right now. Fortunately, in this case, the "change of ownership" has not been submitted so we are doing the certification under the previous ownership (as shown on the registration).
 
Mel said:
YEP! Working one just like this right now. Fortunately, in this case, the "change of ownership" has not been submitted so we are doing the certification under the previous ownership (as shown on the registration).
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Wouldn't that require an Agent Letter from the former owner, since the name of the applicant is different from the name of the registered owner? Maybe the previous owner provided the buyer one......
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Wouldn't that require an Agent Letter from the former owner, since the name of the applicant is different from the name of the registered owner? Maybe the previous owner provided the buyer one......
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Yes, but we got it all worked out. Seems everyone with "special circumstances" tend to migrate to me. I guess that's why we get the big bucks!
 
I called the FAA today to check on my registration for one of the planes I bought in the last year. Registering it in an LLC and they are even more picky about the paperwork being perfect. Hopeful the third time is the charm. The automated message today on the call said they were working on things received in early April! Ugh
 
Mtbguy said:
I called the FAA today to check on my registration for one of the planes I bought in the last year. Registering it in an LLC and they are even more picky about the paperwork being perfect. Hopeful the third time is the charm. The automated message today on the call said they were working on things received in early April! Ugh
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I wonder if anyone has ever weighed (a) the pain and cost of occasionally having, e.g., the comma in the wrong place for a plane registered to an LLC versus (b) the pain and cost to the regulated community caused by the FAA’s slavish devotion to “paperwork being perfect.”

I’m guessing no.

I’m not saying (a) can’t cause problems sometimes. But (b) is a freaking massive daily reality.

In the legal world, there are a LOT of documents with the comma in the wrong place, etc. This is so because perfection is expensive and in fact, achieving it is sometimes entirely unrealistic. When the misplaced comma actually causes pain, which is quite rare, we generally are able to fix it.

I continue to side with Nate Bargatze on this one. People can reasonably disagree, but I think everyone is obliged to be realistic about weighing (a) against (b).
 
I submitted my paperwork April 6 and it still says pending. The estimated review dates did jump from early july back into late June though… whatever that means.
 
Dugaru said:
I wonder if anyone has ever weighed (a) the pain and cost of occasionally having, e.g., the comma in the wrong place for a plane registered to an LLC versus (b) the pain and cost to the regulated community caused by the FAA’s slavish devotion to “paperwork being perfect.”
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The OK City view...without the comma, society will collapse ;)

Grandma.jpg
 
RV7A Flyer said:
And the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024 Section 804 was, in theory, supposed to begin the process of addressing this, but I've not a heard anything about the required study and report from the FAA.
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New regulations to fix beaurocratic inefficiencies created by old regulations. Surpising that didn't work ;) I am sure we have all learned in our experiences that the best way to solve a problem is to initiate a "study" created by the group having/creating the problem.

My favorite was the "paperwork reduction act" that seemingly created more paperwork, albeit different than the old paperwork.

Nameless parties in hopes of not violating rules.
 
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lr172 said:
New regulations to fix beaurocratic inefficiencies created by old regulations. Surpising that didn't work ;) I am sure we have all learned in our experiences that the best way to solve a problem is to initiate a "study" created by the group having/creating the problem.

My favorite was the "paperwork reduction act" that seemingly created more paperwork, albeit different than the old paperwork.

Nameless parties in hopes of not violating rules.
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Well, to their credit, they *did* fix the anonymization of aircraft owner information. Too bad it took an act of Congress to force them to do what every state did decades ago with automobile registrations.
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Well, to their credit, they *did* fix the anonymization of aircraft owner information. Too bad it took an act of Congress to force them to do what every state did decades ago with automobile registrations.
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I will give them that and they deserve it. would have meant a bit more if it didn't require an act of congress though.
 
Fenderbean said:
Not really but havent heard this until last week.
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To answer your question (and keep the thread from turning into a “lets just bash the FAA thread”), yes, the is a fellow who has a ‘bot that buys up short N-Numbers and then sells them to those willign to pay for them. The FAA up until now has no rules or procedures to prevent this. Most folks here fall into one of two categories - one is “let’s find him and string him up because this is unscrupulous, dastardly behavor, hoarding public resources that everyone shoudl have acces to!” The othr camp is “hey, that’s the free market, he's doign nothing illegal - you may not like it, but he didn’t create the rules, he just saw a market opporunity…..” Some folks are in one camp, some in the other, some switch camps now and again… And the FAA is supposed to be addressing the problem, but there are so many ways that can turn out that I wouldn’t hold my breath…

Those are the facts (with a little interpretation) - like them or not.

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
To answer your question (and keep the thread from turning into a “lets just bash the FAA thread”), yes, the is a fellow who has a ‘bot that buys up short N-Numbers and then sells them to those willign to pay for them. The FAA up until now has no rules or procedures to prevent this. Most folks here fall into one of two categories - one is “let’s find him and string him up because this is unscrupulous, dastardly behavor, hoarding public resources that everyone shoudl have acces to!” The othr camp is “hey, that’s the free market, he's doign nothing illegal - you may not like it, but he didn’t create the rules, he just saw a market opporunity…..” Some folks are in one camp, some in the other, some switch camps now and again… And the FAA is supposed to be addressing the problem, but there are so many ways that can turn out that I wouldn’t hold my breath…

Those are the facts (with a little interpretation) - like them or not.

Paul
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A simple yes or no would have been fine, just never heard of such and was curious. THanks
 
Chukill said:
The free market
One could say the same thing about all the ambulance chasing lawyers on the billboards everywhere.
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Understand, I have seen people do the same thing with web addresses. Not trying to start a harsh battle over something or derail the thread, seems this may have been a topic at some point already from the responses.
 
I did pull an extra numbers while I was deciding which one I was going to use (and one when I thought I might build a ‘15.
They will all go back when they expire now, unless someone wants one of them. Then the cost would be a cold beer at the beer social on Monday afternoon.

N15QR and N614SS
 
Fenderbean said:
Understand, I have seen people do the same thing with web addresses. Not trying to start a harsh battle over something or derail the thread, seems this may have been a topic at some point already from the responses.
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Yes, discussed passionately at length in several threads beginning 6-7 years ago:

$3500 N number

$3500 N number (closed by dr) [ed. 11/18/19 update. This eventually turned into a government, lawyer, socialism, capitalism, cybersquatting type thread....so I'm locking it. Non-RV. Please revisit the posting rules. v/r,dr] Anybody been frustrated trying to reserve a specific N number...
vansairforce.net

N Num reservations slow?

Anyone notice a slowdown in the speed of reservations and renewals? I never got my renewal letter last year like I had in previous years like clock work. I redid the reservation but its been well past the 3 weeks the FAA quotes, where as before it was just a few days for the confirmation...
vansairforce.net
 
Ironflight said:
To answer your question (and keep the thread from turning into a “lets just bash the FAA thread”), yes, the is a fellow who has a ‘bot that buys up short N-Numbers and then sells them to those willign to pay for them. The FAA up until now has no rules or procedures to prevent this. Most folks here fall into one of two categories - one is “let’s find him and string him up because this is unscrupulous, dastardly behavor, hoarding public resources that everyone shoudl have acces to!” The othr camp is “hey, that’s the free market, he's doign nothing illegal - you may not like it, but he didn’t create the rules, he just saw a market opporunity…..” Some folks are in one camp, some in the other, some switch camps now and again… And the FAA is supposed to be addressing the problem, but there are so many ways that can turn out that I wouldn’t hold my breath…

Those are the facts (with a little interpretation) - like them or not.

Paul
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The way to resolve this issue is to charge say $100 per year for 4 or 5 years max.
 
RV7A Flyer said:
That wouldn't quite do it, I think.

Better would be 1 per person, and no backdoor API into the system allowing automated reservations. And limit to 2-3 years.
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Or a simple policy change where the FAA states that reservations may not be "SOLD," but may be transferred. I suspect the guy doing this has no desire to be outside of FAA policy and would put a stop to it. certainly not all of it, but most of this comes from one company.
 
lr172 said:
Or a simple policy change where the FAA states that reservations may not be "SOLD," but may be transferred. I suspect the guy doing this has no desire to be outside of FAA policy and would put a stop to it. certainly not all of it, but most of this comes from one company.
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That sounds good on paper, but how would you ever enforce it?
 
Mel said:
That sounds good on paper, but how would you ever enforce it?
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that may not really be required. I believe there is only one guy who does this and believe it is quite possible he would stop with a policy change. minimal effort and decent likelihood of ending it. no downside to the effort imo and pretty easy to implement. enforcement is a lot of effort and wouldn't expect them to do that. there are still many people that do not like to operate outside of the law.
 
How about gubermnt offices? My EAA Chapter is 168. I tried to reserve a number with N168__.
On one morning, (02/29/2020) SBS PRGM OFC, Washington DC, reserved every available number that included "168", with a purge date of 99/99/9999.
 
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Mel said:
How about gubermnt offices? My EAA Chapter is 168. I tried to reserve a number with N168__.
On one morning, (02/29/2020) SBS PRGM OFC, Washington DC, reserved every available number that included "168", with a purge date of 99/99/9999.
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SBS (Surveillance and Broadcast Services) is an FAA office, and it looks like this is related to the third-party callsign stuff, or PIA (Privacy ICAO Address).
 
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