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  #1  
Old 12-16-2011, 10:09 AM
DFlyer DFlyer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 131
Default Second SkyView Display in RV-12

All,

As you can imagine, we often get asked about the SkyView installation in the RV-12. One question concerns a second display. Here is the complete answer; you can do it but you must be aware of all the factors involved.

Van's Aircraft has determined after extensive testing that a high load demand on the Rotax electrical system relative to its limited output will, over time, lead to failures of electrical system components.

An RV-12, when equipped with the optional lighting kit, will be nearly at the full capacity of the electrical system. The addition of a second SkyView display will put the electrical system over it's electrical load limit. Van's has taken the approach to optional electrical equipment that, to avoid confusion and long term service issues (particularly with aircraft that are not owned by the original builder), all optional equipment must be altogether compatible with all other options and all the standard equipment.

The limited load capacity of the Rotax electrical system coupled with the fact that there are numerous options associated with the addition of a second display (display size, possible second ADAHRS, possible second GPS) are key reasons that Van's is not developing a second display option for a SkyView equipped RV-12.

If the aircraft does not have the optional lighting kit installed, addition of a second display will not overtax the electrical system however subsequent owners of the aircraft will likely either ignore or not be aware of this fact. The experience of Van's Aircraft is that it is better to require all optional equipment be altogether compatible with all other options and all the standard equipment.

Adding a second SkyView Display can be accomplished by purchasing a second display, either an SV-D700 or SV-D1000, from Dynon or one of their authorized Dynon dealers. As with any such change, the responsibility for ensuring the proper mechanical and electrical installation lies with the builder. Dynon publishes electrical and mechanical specifications for the SkyView displays on its Website; you will need to perform work to determine how to fit the display and how it connects to your electrical system, including performing your own power budget calculations as well as making revisions to the aircraft operating and maintenance documentation.

Note, the SV-MAP-270 GPS Navigation License you receive with your Avionics Kit from Vans allows the SkyView navigation features to function on BOTH displays installed in one airplane; an additional license is not required.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

Last edited by DFlyer : 12-16-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-16-2011, 03:52 PM
Bill_H's Avatar
Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,794
Default

Thanks very much Robert. Can you tell us if the dual 10" Skyview display as offered in the Flight Design CTLS (along with AP, Garmin, etc) involves also having the optional external Rotax alternator also installed in that plane? Their website is not clear on that.
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2011, 07:44 PM
sandpiper sandpiper is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 317
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I just looked at the Flight Design site, www.flightdesignusa.com and it shows they offer dual 10" Skyviews, night lighting package including landing light, a Garmin 696 and an autopilot. I don't see anywhere where they talk about doing this with an add on alternator.

I'm not bringing this up to be argumentive and I have no reason to doubt what Vans and Dynon have to say about this but I would like to know what is different between these two. Is Flight Design including the aux alternator as part of the upgrade and just not talking about it? Or, is it just a difference in philosophy?

Just curious. Either way, for my needs, I would only put in one.
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Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
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Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2011, 09:21 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,687
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John,
The photo of the 912S on their website shows the second alternator, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's standard equipment for their installations. Anyway, one nice big screen is fine for me too. I just want to know how much it will cost, and when it will be available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandpiper View Post
I just looked at the Flight Design site, www.flightdesignusa.com and it shows they offer dual 10" Skyviews, night lighting package including landing light, a Garmin 696 and an autopilot. I don't see anywhere where they talk about doing this with an add on alternator.

I'm not bringing this up to be argumentive and I have no reason to doubt what Vans and Dynon have to say about this but I would like to know what is different between these two. Is Flight Design including the aux alternator as part of the upgrade and just not talking about it? Or, is it just a difference in philosophy?

Just curious. Either way, for my needs, I would only put in one.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2011, 10:03 PM
sandpiper sandpiper is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 317
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Robert,

Thank you. I didn't catch that. I was looking for it being listed on an option list. Now I can sleep peacefully knowing the CTLS has an aux alternator option to carry the load of that expensive panel. It also explains why the cost of the dual Skyview is that much over the cost of the standard D100/D120 panel.
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Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
Rotax Service, Maintenance, and Heavy Maintenance Trained
Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2011, 10:06 AM
Bill_H's Avatar
Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,794
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Not so fast! Here is an email from Flight Design on this issue. NO second alternator!
From: Bill Hollifield [mailto:billhollifield@iname.com]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 4:38 PM
To: fstar@rcn.com
Subject: CTLS Rotax Alternator
Does the CTLS with dual Dynon Skyview, and fully equipped (i.e. including autopilot, Garmin, etc), have only the standard Rotax electrical system or does it include the optional 40+amp alternator?
Thanks,
Bill Hollifield

REPLY received today:
Bill:
The LS with the SkyView does not need the optional alternator. It is well within the 80% usage or allowable capability of the standard alternator. Tom Peghiny
Tom Peghiny
President, Flight Design USA
860-963-7272
++++++
++++++
I am reconfirming that this is for the dual screen since he did not specifically say "dual."
<<<REVISION>>> Flight Design has confirmed that this is the dual-screen Skyview, which is the only option that they sell.
The package is dual SkyView, radio, mode S transponder, Garmin 696, autopilot, intercom, ELT, position lights, landing light, interior light. Shoot, the CTLS even has electric flaps.
<<<END REVISION>>>

ALSO - in these pictures, which seem to all be of the dual-screen, fully equipped CTLS, there is no optional alternator. http://flightdesignusa.com/aircraft/ctls/photos/

Opinion: Van's decisions reflect a variety of business reasons and their particular opinion regarding design limits and factors. Nothing wrong with that. This is just additional information for post-certification mods.

I intend to fly with the single screen for awhile before deciding to add the double, or a Garmin 796, or whatever - and continuing to do research on the issue.

Last edited by Bill_H : 12-19-2011 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Additional info
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2011, 10:47 AM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,823
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Keep in mind Vans never said it would not work, they simply thought that tasking the alternator that heavily would be better if it were not tasked so heavily. I can certainly agree with them. Although I have penty of alternator to run two, I am still trying to decide if I even want two. Others have said that the display is easy to read from the passenger side, so maybe the space is better used for a backup ASI and maybe an altimeter.
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EAA Chapter 595 President,http://www.595.eaachapter.org/index.htm
Retired US Army Officer
RV12 built and flying
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  #8  
Old 12-17-2011, 03:01 PM
aerofurb aerofurb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 288
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I've said before on various threads that in my limited experience of our dual SkyView equipped RV-12, the standard alternator copes with the electrical load just fine. If it ever does become an issue, and I can't see why it should then I'll let you all know

For what it's worth, I can't see how the optional external 45A alternator is going to fit inside the CT cowling - we've got a number of Tecnams with it fitted (and I've posted the pics on another thread).
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Ex RV-12


Loving Rotax....
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2011, 04:12 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,687
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Since Jerry is having great success, I can see how it would make some RV-12 customers question the decision not to offer the option of the second screen.

My only response is... Would it be proper for Van's to offer it if they had found that there were instances where component failure in the system could occur because of the alternator output capability being exceeded?

Even if it happened to only a few of the dual screen customers, it would still not be a good thing. Who would be responsible for paying for the repairs?

If you were one of those customers, would you be satisfied with the explanation that there are other dual screen RV-12's flying without any problems, so you will have to pay for repairs (you must have done something wrong)?

It has been proven with flight testing that failures can (I am not saying they will) occur. If an RV-12 builder chooses to install the second screen after certification, there is no question who is responsible for repairs if they have component failures in their electrical system.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2011, 05:15 PM
aerofurb aerofurb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 288
Default

I didn't actually claim 'great success', I'm merely trying to provide a bit of balance and info on what we have seen - and as I have said we only have a small number of hours on the aircraft so far. No p*ss*ng contest from this side of the Pond!

I fully appreciate why Van's are being over cautious and I don't have a problem with that. Also, we are lucky in the UK not having to abide by the US rules on following the Van's build book totally when it comes to things like panel design.

Our electrical system on and behind the panel is purely ours and not using any plug and play equipment as per Van's standard design. Perhaps that is where there is a difference between the Van's setup and that seen on the CT?

If the Van's SkyView option was available at the time we wanted the avionics etc then we would have gone with it and saved a ruck of time building a bespoke system. As it wasn't (last December) we went our own way.

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England
Ex RV-12


Loving Rotax....
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