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  #1  
Old 02-28-2009, 07:15 PM
andrew phillips's Avatar
andrew phillips andrew phillips is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Carp, Ont
Posts: 347
Default RV-7A Lands on river-no casualties

Okay I admit I sensationalized the headline. It worked though, didn't it? You are reading this story of how an RV landed on a river today. This river happens to be in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and is quite frozen at this time of year. There were also 40 -50 other planes and one helicopter doing the same thing.

Landing site as seen on the way in. Look in the mid right to see the aircraft already there.

[IMG][/IMG]

Today was the 20 anniversary of Moe's fly in. Moe lives along the Ottawa river near Ottawa. Every year on this Saturday he clears off a 3000' runway and invites pilots from anywhere to come and visit. The weather this year was perfect. Rain yesterday smoothed the ice and todays well below freezing temperatures made it good and solid.

There were all kinds of planes, Cirrus, Rv's, Maule, Cessna, Taylorcraft, Piper to name a few. People arrived on skiis and wheels.

Picture from Moes balcony:

[IMG][/IMG]

This was my first time landing on ice so I was a little nervous. At 2000' it was initially hard to see the runway since most of the river looked the same. The colorful display of parked aircraft caught our attention and we knew we were in the right place. I joined in a long downwind behind fellow RV builder Alfio in his 9A. There were at least three of us in the pattern at the same time so it got a bit stretched out. I ended up on a long and very gradual decent on final. The plane in front of Alfio's got a bit stuck on the runway and so Alfio had to overshoot. When I got there the plane had been moved and I was able to make a very nice landing. I was going so slowly on touchdown that I had to taxi a ways to the end. During that time the plane behind me had to overshoot. It was such a beautiful sunny day that overshooting must have just added to the fun!

Alfio just after landing as I taxi to parking:
[IMG][/IMG]

The reward for making this trip was some of the best Chili I have had and socializing with many friendly pilots and their families. My co-pilot and photographer, Bill Reed, seemed to enjoy himself too. I let him fly on the way home and he did a pretty decent landing for his first time in an RV-7A. I am already looking forward to this event next year.

My plane with it's winter coat on while parked on the ice:
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2009, 08:08 PM
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SMO SMO is offline
 
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Location: Salmon Arm, BC
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Default What a fun idea

Thanks for posting this, sounds like a fun time.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2009, 08:32 PM
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Location: Utah
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Default Thanks Andrew

I reposted your write up and pictures here http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB...117888/156#156I hope you don't mind. I mentioned you and Alfio. A good example to repel strong critisism in certain parts of the world. They say nosedragging RVs need only good concrete runways.
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Last edited by Vlad : 02-11-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: sp
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2009, 09:22 PM
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Lycosaurus Lycosaurus is offline
 
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Location: Ottawa, ON
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Default

Fun day it was.... I was finishing some maintenance and putting the cowl back on early this morning in -20C weather. You really hafta wanna go....

Shirley and I took off from Carp airport around 11:30, and we would meet Andrew's 'shark' in the air. We flew a loose formation to the river. It's only just maybe 10 miles away, if that!

Here are some more photos of Mo's (Maurice Prud'homme) Ottawa River annual Fly-in event:





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Last edited by Lycosaurus : 02-28-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2009, 09:25 PM
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Lycosaurus Lycosaurus is offline
 
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Location: Ottawa, ON
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Default More Photos

And here are some more photos. Cold, but the sun really did make up for it.








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Last edited by Lycosaurus : 02-28-2009 at 09:33 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2009, 04:31 AM
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tc1234c tc1234c is offline
 
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Andrew and Alfio,

Great fun!
For those of us live areas that have no iced river to land, how do you taxi and especially stop on ice? When we had ice emergency two months ago, it took me 7 hrs to make a usually 2 hr trip. I am scared of driving on ice.
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2009, 04:52 AM
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Kevin Horton Kevin Horton is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1234c View Post
For those of us live areas that have no iced river to land, how do you taxi and especially stop on ice? When we had ice emergency two months ago, it took me 7 hrs to make a usually 2 hr trip. I am scared of driving on ice.
The melting temperature of ice varies with the pressure. At warmer temperatures, the pressure from tires, feet, etc on the ice increases the pressure at the ice surface so that the melting point is now below the actual temperature, and some of that ice turns to water. You end up with some water between the tire, or your foot, and the ice - very, very slippery.



It was cold here yesterday (-21 deg C overnight, -17 deg C at noon), so the pressure from tires, feet, etc was not nearly enough to cause any of that ice to melt. Ice that stays frozen is not nearly as slippery as ice with water on top. You need to use some caution, because there isn't as much friction as on dry pavement.
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Last edited by Kevin Horton : 03-01-2009 at 05:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2009, 05:42 AM
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andrew phillips andrew phillips is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Carp, Ont
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Default No too slippery!

I did not find it very slippery at all. I was quite surprised by this but I taxied very slowly. I did get stuck on a little ridge of snow at one point but Bill advised me to wiggle the rudder and that got me free. The guys on skis have more trouble as they have no brakes at all and have to keep starting and stopping their engines so as to not build up too much speed.

Great pics Alfio. My camera acted up and only half of what I took was recognized by my computer.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2009, 08:34 AM
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Lycosaurus Lycosaurus is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew phillips View Post
Great pics Alfio. My camera acted up and only half of what I took was recognized by my computer.
I only posted about 60%. It was really a snap and shoot day.... too bright to use the LCD display on the camera, luckily I had a view-finder. Work quick..... remove your gloves, pull out camera, power-up, aim, shoot, put back camera, put back gloves..... shiver. There was still a nice breeze out there :-)

While Andrew refers to the ice as smooth, generally it was but I found it was actually quite bumpy, and rough in places. Aerodynamic braking works just as well on ice as on a runway. Try it next time at your airport. No brakes required, especially with bit of a headwind. With warmer temperatures, I can imagine that it would be quite difficult maintain control at slow taxi speeds (and stopping!).

Our little RV-9A was landed and taxiing in a very short time. Like Andy says, we ended up taxi-ing down the runway until the taxiway turnoff for quite a bit. I was following a signalling marshal's taxiing instructions, and he/she (who knows, with everyone bundled up on that day) indicated a turn to the taxiway but a little too late. Had to pull a tight turn and back up the runway a little. Plowed runway was a straight 3000 ft, with a perpendicular taxiway at half-point.

Skis were just about useless in those conditions. One ski equipped plane, as Andrew says, had to shut down his engine, because he ended up going too fast (skates!). It still slid for another probably 60 ft. or so on the taxiway (parallel to the runway) before it came to a stop. The tail wind did not help .... maybe 5 to 8 kts.

For those who cannot get enough, someone posted last year's photos on Flickr:
http://flickr.com/photos/djipibi/set...7603998396531/

Only way I know to land on water legally, without a float plane rating.

Weather permitting..... we will be there again next year.
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Last edited by Lycosaurus : 03-01-2009 at 09:52 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2009, 09:58 AM
allbee allbee is offline
 
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landing on snow, ice, or anything slippery is fun. But you need to be careful. You land straight. I'll say it again, you land straight, and use NO Brakes. Best you get your tailwheel endorsement, that way you can learn how to use a rudder. My kitfox is a lot of fun to land on a frozen lake. I do it without having anything cleared. It helps to be landing at 40mph or less in a three point. But I will do my initial with a wheel landing. On approach and a touch down, I can feel the wind and know where or what direction it is coming from. If it's on my current path, fine, if not and it's lets say, behind me, I shoot back up and do a 180 and come back and land. My last landing was on a lake that had a bunch of snow that was all tracked up and than frozen. I landed and bump, bump, bump. Real rough. Better have a good landing gear, and an RV, no matter if the wheel is in the front or back is not going to make it.

Now with all this said. It's best to be real prepared for ice or snow landings. First off, with snow, you will get the white blind effect. Meaning, everything is white and it WILL blind you. Best to have a seaplane rating as well. It's no different than landing on a calm lake. Where is the water? On snow it's just as bad or worse. Where is the ground? You need to learn how to atripulate where things are, look to the right, left, in front of you to find land. When there is water, you can throw something into the water on a low pass to see the ripples or the object, with snow, you may not be able to do this.

I did nothing but wheel touches for about 2 years before I got up the nerve to finally do a full stop on a frozen lake, with no cut out for a runway. So be careful when doing it. It is a totally different word.
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