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Performance Engines / Ron Munson

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larryj

Well Known Member
I was hesitant to make this post on VAF. I'm relatively new here and seeing the caption under Product Reviews admonishing "no bashing allowed" I thought this forum might not appreciate this. But I was told differently so here it goes.

I own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk. I run a high-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants, medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like. The success of my business is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and expertise.

The short story goes like this: I decided to go with Performance Engines for a ?hot rod? IO-540 for my Rocket. They asked for a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days ? all in a written contract (by email and fax). The 90 days came and went, I wasn?t worried; another couple of months went by, I still wasn?t too worried. After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried. We had been talking during this time and there were ?reasons? for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump - and this is no reflection on BPA). Then a friend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Performance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno. Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in delivering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back. Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,000. Again I wasn?t too worried and agreed to 2 months. This time came and went with no money. Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phone calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an attorney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned. During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were promised ?$4,000 by the end of next week? only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later. As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are banking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bookkeeper stonewall. These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit. I?m taking this to mean ?more good money after bad? so I?m very reticent to make this investment (most likely not an investment at all). That?s pretty much the story.

It has been my experience that it is not that hard to ?do the right thing? and keep my nose clean. There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare. Even more rare (but do exist) is the ?impossible to please? customer. It happens. But even then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean. My dealings with Ron at Performance has been anything but clean.

If I read someone making a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this ?wronged person? had played to cause this breakdown. In throwing this mud it seems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me. And I didn?t like this prospect. But in the end I didn?t like the prospect of Ron Munson getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more. And in truth I cannot find myself carrying any fault ? the case is very simple and straight forward: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white. The only reasonable conclusion is that Performance Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks.

I have received some very nice and encouraging emails off-line from posts to other venues and my thanks go out to them. If anyone here on the VAF forum has ideas on how I can get my money back I?d love to hear from them. I am also happy to answer any questions anyone might have.
 
Larry,

I've read your posts on other forums and I feel for you... I for one got what I wanted from Performance. I also consider Stuart a friend and have a personal relationship with him. I don't know Ron that well, but in most of my dealings with them, they returned calls, delivered what was promised and I had little problems. That does not however make my experience the norm, nor solve your problem. :(

Now with all of this said... I *DO NOT* recommend them any longer. While they make a great motor, their customer service and delivery schedules are terrible and no manner of prodding them to do different has seemed to help.

From what I've gathered, Ron has been here before, may be able to dig out again, but not without lots of effort and mending.

Sorry for your challenges with them and best of luck.
 
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Thanks for the heads up.....

I just received a quote from them. I guess I will be looking where I started..... Superior Engines! XP-400
 
Interesting contrast.

Back in late 2006 I sent BPA $16,000, asked them to obtain a 390 Lyc engine kit to lock the then current price, and just hold it for me, unassembled, until I needed it....all without the slightest shred of worry. Later they needed it for an emergency AOG customer, so they sold it, but not without asking me first, and then replacing it at the original promised price. And they do have a dyno, and a real crank balancing machine, and a flow bench......

Dependable is more than just an engine.
 
Superior Engine

Michael, if you choose Superior, check out Eagle Engines.

I purchased an xp-io360 thru them.
Very happy with the customer service (James A Dean/Eagle Service Manager).
 
There is a solution

I had this same issue with a aircraft salvage company that did not want to return my money for a crank that they said was good. After many calls and promises they basically want to give me back some partial money to cover a crank that we going to be expesive to replace. I had one option of getting on a plane and having a discussion face to face. I did mention that I knew what they looked liked, however they had no clue what I looked like. (They posted their pictures on their website). They did not like to hear that. I also had another option that was less physical. They advertised in the Trade-a-plane. I called Trade-a-plane and checked to see if I could post an ad. Low and behold I could I could place an ad right next to theirs and state the facts of the transaction in the same flyer as they were advertising in. As long as you don't slander their name or state untrue events, they really do not have any recourse. When I called back and told them what I was going to do, they were a lot more cooperative with me. In fact I even got a call back from the president himself stating he would make good on everything. They were willing to give up my business, but when it came to loosing a bunch of potential customers, it hit them in the wallet. It looks like you have already sent some of his potential customers packing up to look elsewhere. Is there anywhere else they like to advertise? Just out of curiosity, why did you not got to Bart since you live in Bellvue and he is right up in B.C.? Was it a pricing issue or did you want the most HP you could for your Rocket.
 
I like the info

They are off of my list. Pure and simple. That kind of money warrants good customer service. I do not know how much my engine will be but I can tell you that customer service will be as important as the price.

I have encountered some of the lowest moral characters in this aviation venture and stories like this one infuriate me. What possesses a person to steal from another? I have been a police officer since 1991 and theives get under my skin.

I am not sure what jurisditions are involved in your case but I believe that you may have an embezzlement on your hands. You might want to explore that avenue. I am in Nevada and may be able to give you some direction. Please PM me and we can examine the laws that may apply.

On a more positive note I have also met some of the greatest people in my life due to aviation. I would not trade my aviation experience for anything. It has been overall, a wonderful adventure that I plan on continuing to participate in.
 
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Yep, Performance Engines has pretty much screwed about 80% of their customers in the last 2 years over. My story:

Went to Ron to get a quote for a "NORMAL" overhaul of a 0-360-A1A for a certified airplane because I'm based on the field. Quote was over 19K, which is more than a FACTORY NEW engine at the time. Note that this is with no special work done. Obviously went elsewhere, but didn't think much of it.

I'm started working on a Reno Formula 1 racer this last year, and they had a brand new shiney Performance engines rebuild in it. They asked Ron to do the following work:
Bore .012" over stock with new FORGED pistons
Race profile ground cam
C-85-8 accesory case (No starter)
Weld up some of the primer ports in the intake system

After racing it last year and having a number of problems, got no support from Ron even though the aircraft is based on the field! Took the cylinders off this off-season for some work and to be checked out. Found out:

Still had the old cam, not even a new stock cam was used.
Cylinders are stock size, no overbore at all
ECI cast pistons were used.

He did do the welding work, and the accessory case, and thats about it. Cost? About $25K

Never again will we use or recommend him. The engine work is now being done by another local shop, who I have high hopes for, but we'll see if they come through. It just so happens that this same shop has 3 of Ron's engines in to be finished because Ron delivered them unfinished.

I'm not bashing the guy, but I think there is something else going on here with peoples money than engine building.
 
Performance Engines - progress report

I've had conversations with Ron Munson @ Performance Engines and he has committed to a payment schedule to completely pay back my unpaid balance of my deposit due with interest. I will let everyone know how this works out. Evidently the pressure applied through these forums did have an impact - myself, my secretary, an attorney, and a collections agency over the course of nearly two years all failed to get results.
 
Performance Engines; progress report

Ron Munson at Performance Engines committed to sending me an email outlining our discussed agreement and repaying my deposit in three payments spaced two weeks apart. I never received the email; and did receive the first payment as agreed.
 
final update - Performance Engines

Ron Munson / Performance Engines has repaid my deposit in full. Whew. I figure I'm obligated to keep everyone current; and I am very glad to have my money back.

That being said, anyone considering choosing Performance Engines as their engine builder should look through this thread and the similar thread on the Rocket Builders Lists (Matronics and Team Rocket) before they decide. I would not recommend them nor would I consider doing business with them. On the bright side, we do have quite a few very reputable engine builders to choose from !!!
 
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