Garmin Panel Upgrade 2.0

In the works on converting this:



Into this:



Just replacing the GDU 37X PFD/MFD with the new GDU 465 and the PFD2 with my existing 796 which will be BT connected to the 3D GDL39. It will serve as an independent navigation source, full screen traffic monitor and add another redundant attitude display (4X AHRS's total in this panel).

The 796 will be surface mounted on a ball mount so it can be pivoted toward the pilot. I had this before with the old Dynon panel and liked it pretty well.

Upgrade 1.0 wasn't that long ago! You probably mean you're replacing your GDU 37X, not 36X

I really like my G3X Touch. I've pretty much changed my plans to go surface mount for my iPad Mini vs in panel.

grayforge said:

Upgrade 1.0 wasn't that long ago! You probably mean you're replacing your GDU 37X, not 36X

I really like my G3X Touch. I've pretty much changed my plans to go surface mount for my iPad Mini vs in panel.

Click to expand...

Yep, sorry for the typo, I was a little delirious from the fact that I had just sold all the screens from my plane and now have a screen-less plane!

Glad to hear you like the Touch. You won't regret mounting your mini in a way that it can be pivoted. It makes the mirror slick screens like those much more usable.

Brian you must have a very understanding wife!

The new GRT Mini X or Mini B would fit nicely where the Dynon is. If you going to update you might as well go all the way. Would save you weight and lots of space behind the panel.

i would prefer the 3 GDU 370 for safety. Look great but for ifr yu must think redundancy

HSANTIBANEZ said:

i would prefer the 3 GDU 370 for safety. Look great but for ifr yu must think redundancy

Click to expand...

If the GDU 465 goes dead, I have a D6 EFIS and a 796 with real attitude as well as a basic autopilot for backup. The only meaningful thing I lose is engine info and I don't need that to stay alive during a screen failure. The GDU 465 will have access to two AHRS's to further minimize risk of failure.

That's a lotta beans in all those upgrades.

Very nice!

The top (old) panel links to a larger, higher resolution pic. Any chance you could do the same for the new one? Would love to see the detail.

Thanks.

Freightdawg said:

The top (old) panel links to a larger, higher resolution pic. Any chance you could do the same for the new one? Would love to see the detail.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I just added a link to a larger image. The details are all the same however with the exception of the GDU 465 and the 796 and removal of the GX Pilot.

Noah said:

That's a lotta beans in all those upgrades.

Very nice!

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Thanks Noah.

In reality the upgrade is not that hard on me since I have sold the three GDU 37X screens (which help offset the cost of the new screen) and I have had the 796 for a few years now.

Since I already had all the behind the scenes stuff required to make the new GDU 465 do its magic, all I had to purchase was the screen itself.

A single display G3X Touch plus an Aera 796 may cost less than a triple display G3X did.

Brian, have you considered adding a TOGA button? I find it to be extremely useful when practicing autopilot approaches/missed approaches. This is one of the nicest features of the new Garmin autopilot! Maybe you are not IFR rated, but if you're considering it in the future, you will want to have the TOGA. Panel looks great!

Pat Hatch said:

Brian, have you considered adding a TOGA button? I find it to be extremely useful when practicing autopilot approaches/missed approaches. This is one of the nicest features of the new Garmin autopilot! Maybe you are not IFR rated, but if you're considering it in the future, you will want to have the TOGA. Panel looks great!

Click to expand...

I have thought about it but hate the thought of digging into the 650's wiring harness to add the input. Eventually I will most likely.

Pat Hatch said:

Brian, have you considered adding a TOGA button? I find it to be extremely useful when practicing autopilot approaches/missed approaches. This is one of the nicest features of the new Garmin autopilot! Maybe you are not IFR rated, but if you're considering it in the future, you will want to have the TOGA. Panel looks great!

Click to expand...

I wish Garmin would have the discreet inputs for things like the TOGA available somewhere besides in the GEA 24 engine module (which makes no sense to me), some of us don't have the GEA24

Yeah, it's pin #11 in connector P1002 of the 650, and pin #40 in the J244 connector of the GEA24. Both pins to ground. You need a double pole push button switch, too. Kind of a pain unless you provisioned for it at the beginning. Next time you have those connectors apart, add those pins!

It's a beautiful thing to watch the autopilot shoot your missed approach/enter the holding pattern for you!

+1 on the TO/GA
It is a very secure feeling pushing that button before TO knowing that if you pull into a low scud and freak you can just hit AP.
Even without the AP it will at least give you FD during TO or GA.
First time I tried it was useless because the default angle of climb is 5 degrees. I have changed to 9 degrees and am happy with that.

Touch upgrade almost complete....

Got my new GDU465 G3X Touch screen and CNC'd adapter plate and the plug for the PFD2 side from Stein on Friday.

The CNC'd parts look and worked perfectly to convert the original 3 screen setup. All I had to do was take a dremel and cut the small piece out of the middle that was between the two portrait screens. The plug for the PFD2 fit like a glove and it was made with 2 pieces so that it comes out flush with the face of the panel.

All that is left to do is for me to paint the adapter/plug and tie in the bare wire cable for the 796.

I recently upgraded the remote mounted GDL39 to the 3D version in anticipation of using it with the 796 to give pilot passengers and the occasional Young Eagle something to look at on that side. In the past I used to run that screen in full screen traffic mode 98% of the time. The 796 still has that capability via Blue Tooth to the GDL39 3D.

As for wiring changes, they were pretty easy to do. Since I had 9 serial ports before with 3 screens, I had plenty of ports and a few spares. Now with the new Touch, I am limited to 5 ports and I had to move some of the connected devices from the MFD connector to the PFD1 connector. I also had to move my mono and stereo audio connections from the MFD to the PFD1 connector. And finally I had to move the power lead from the VP-X Pro from the MFD to the PFD1 connector since the VP- X Pro wants the screen that controls the VP-X Pro connected to a specific pin and moving the wire in the G3X connectors was way easier than switching em at the VP-X Pro.



After getting everything reconnected and talking, the challenge was to configure the system. Before ripping out my original screens, I took screen shots of all configuration pages and engine monitor setup. I also made sure to backup my fuel tank calibration files. I had these pages all printed and ready for the new install. The touch features make this process a dream compared to all of the knob twisting of the original screens.

I did manage to get a short flight in yesterday and it was really bumpy. This proved to be a non-issue with the new Touch as it appears that Garmin took a ground up approach to designing the user interface for this box. Everything appears to have been optimized for touch and making it easy to use in the bumps. The knobs are there for stuff that just feel more natural with a twisting action like changing the heading bug, selecting altitudes and adjusting the baro. I love having a dedicated HDG knob that works all the time without having to push a button first!

The performance/processing power of the screen appears to be a major leap over the original portrait displays. Everything is smooth and fluid, with fast refresh rates and drawing of maps and charts.

My jury is still out on how useful the 3D function of the GDL 39 is. I consider it a backup to the backup. It lacks any sort of fixed offset feature that persist across power cycles and always aligns itself as straight and level on boot. This requires the pilot to center it up after you get straight and level and in smooth air. Hopefully Garmin is still working on it and we will continue to see it improve.

That's about it for now. I will get some more time behind the new setup and give a more thorough review later.

New stuff

Brian: Great looking panel. Is the attitude indicator part of the PFD directly in front of you? Would it be physically possible for the G3X to be mounted further to the left? If you built another panel from scratch with this same equipment would you change anything? Thanks

Don Broussard

RV 9 Rebuild in Progress

cajunwings said:

Brian: Great looking panel. Is the attitude indicator part of the PFD directly in front of you? Would it be physically possible for the G3X to be mounted further to the left? If you built another panel from scratch with this same equipment would you change anything? Thanks

Don Broussard

RV 9 Rebuild in Progress

Click to expand...

It is pretty close. It could have been optimized a little more to the left but I wanted the adapter plate to be symmetrical. As it is and in practical use it is just fine. There is a rib between the Touch and the D6 so that has to be accounted for.

Sure if I was making a whole new panel I would optimize it for the current equipment. Anytime you reuse a panel there are compromises. I would move the D6 down and to the left more (to stay out of the way of the tipup frame), I would not put in the stand alone AP controller hole or the source select switches that are directly below that. I would move the rib, the Touch and the radio stack more to the left with the extra room provided.

I would not change a thing about the bottom of the panel and the jacks/vents/switches/controls/etc. That has worked out very well!

Very nice, Brian!

Is there a TOGA button in your future? I see a red button on the panel that I didn't see before! That would be the logical place to put it.

Looking forward to your progress reports.

Flying?

Hello Brian,
Your panel looks great, again. Have you had much experience with the new screen in flight yet? If so, what features do you like the most?

Pat Hatch said:

Yeah, it's pin #11 in connector P1002 of the 650, and pin #40 in the J244 connector of the GEA24. Both pins to ground. You need a double pole push button switch, too. Kind of a pain unless you provisioned for it at the beginning. Next time you have those connectors apart, add those pins!

It's a beautiful thing to watch the autopilot shoot your missed approach/enter the holding pattern for you!

Click to expand...

Hey Pat,

The last to installs I've done, (one 400W and one 650), I've only used the discrete input on the GEA24 for TOGA. Everything works as advertised without using the discrete on the 650 or 400W. Am I missing something?
Jon

Hey Jon, I think I'll defer to the G3Experts, but my intuition tells me you need to tell the 650 to switch from approach mode to the missed approach navigation. How do it know? If after pushing the TOGA button, you're pitching up and transitioning to the missed, then I'd say you're fine. But I don't know why!

jthocker said:

Hey Pat,

The last to installs I've done, (one 400W and one 650), I've only used the discrete input on the GEA24 for TOGA. Everything works as advertised without using the discrete on the 650 or 400W. Am I missing something?
Jon

Click to expand...

Hello Jon,

You are absolutely right that you are getting everything available when using a G3X system with a GPS 400W, since this unit doesn't have a Go Around discrete input that activates the missed approach. You can still press the button and command the autopilot to enter Go Around mode, but you must activate the missed approach separately on the GPS 400W.

The GTN 6XX/7XX, on the other hand, supports an input discrete type of Go Around that allows a single button press to activate the missed approach without touching the GTN. When executing the missed approach, push one button and add power and the system will fly the plane to the hold, enter the hold, and stay there as long as you like.

You must have GTN V4.00 or newer software to have this capability.

The drawing on page 20-6 of the G3X Installation Manual mentions using the GTN for this discrete, but not the GPS 400W or GNS 400W/500W for this reason.

Let us know if you have questions.

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,
I know we talked about this in a separate email, but has the Garmin team concluded that both the G3X and 650 TOGA lines can be tied together using a spst switch?

M McGraw said:

Hello Brian,
Your panel looks great, again. Have you had much experience with the new screen in flight yet? If so, what features do you like the most?

Click to expand...

Three flights...

Yesterday for a short trip over to 0VG to get fuel and twice today once to calibrate the AOA and once to check the MASQ squelch in the GMA 240 audio panel after an adjustment. (The GDU 465 apparently does not have as hot of an audio output as the GDU 375 does. I could not hear the AOA alert beeps due to the MASQ setting)

As far as what I like:

Full screen flight display with inset overlays for the map and flight plan/video
Inset overlay map on the full screen display also has the ability to show traffic, weather and terrain
Touch the inset overlay and the split screen pops up automatically
Touch the EMS strip and the split screen pops up to the ENG page automatically
Awesome processing power resulting in fast refresh, zoom and pan as well as redrawing on maps and charts
The new sectionals are awesome. Garmin is using the new all digital format.
Traffic overlay on charts/sectional
Full flight plan from the GTN shown on charts/sectional
Touchscreen interface very well designed and is easy to use without much effort
Dedicated knobs for stuff that is more natural with a twisting action like setting the HDG bug, ALT bug and Baro.
Touch control of the Autopilot system as well as the xponder. Makes setting the squawk code easy!
Easy to get to and use timer function

I am sure I will find more as I get some more time on the system....


EDIT: Some additional stuff from a post to another thread:

Having done this (switched from a 3 screen GDU 37X based system to a single GDU 475 + 796 with GDL39 3D), I would do it again.

At first I was all hung up on the fact that the GDU 370 PFD2 on the Co-Pilot side was not compatible with the new GDU 465. I even thought about cutting a new panel so I could fit 2 GDU 46X's in but found that next to impossible after trying to make the two screens fit along with the radio stack and keeping the independent stand alone backup D6 in the panel. This was also more pain and agony than I wanted to go thru!

I also realized that putting a 2nd GDU 46X configured as a MFD on the Co-pilot side really did not provide the same functionality of the PFD1/MFD/PFD2 combo that I already had. What I mean is: What good does it do to have a second GDU 46X MFD way over on the Co-Pilot side? Sure you could configure both screens as PFD's but then you lose the awesome functionality of a dedicated MFD screen. A MFD over on the co-pilot side would not be very useful in my opinion.

So that left me thinking about what my options were and what would cost me the least and leverage what I already had. I really analyzed what I use that existing PFD2 for and 98% of the time it was used as a full screen traffic display and the rest of the time was on the rare occasion that I had a passenger that needed a flight display to look at.

Then Steve announced that they had brought support for the new GDL39 3D to the 79X which I happened to have already. This made the choice to upgrade easier since I was able to replace the majority of the functionality of the existing PFD2 with the 796/GDL39 3D combo. The only meaningful thing I lost was reversionary redundancy with going from 3 screens to 1. (Keep in mind that I have a totally independent stand along backup D6)

As for the work involved in making the switch, depending on how your original system was wired, you may need to make some changes to where the serial and audio devices are connected. Also an adapter plate of some sort will most likely need to be fabricated to adapt the new larger screen to the 2 existing holes. The units are really close to the same dimension vertically but horizontally 2 GDU 37X screens are a bit wider than a GDU 47X.

So far this is what I have noticed that I have gained over the original system:

Big nice full screen PFD with much larger field of view for SVX! One GDU 46X has 215,040 more pixels than 2 GDU 37X's.
Super good performance on screen refresh, map and chart redrawing, panning and zooming etc. Major boost in processing power.
Much beefier design. Better knobs! (same knobs as on the GTN series)
Dedicated knobs for stuff that is more natural to change with a twisting motion like HDG/ALT bug's and BARO.
Obviously the touch screen features which appear to be well done and designed from the ground up as an easy to use interface.
Awesome new format sectional charts are standard
Inset overlays for the map, flight plan and external video if you have it right on the full screen flight display.
Full GPS flight plan including holds and procedure turns are overlaid on all maps, charts and sectionals.
Traffic and weather are also shown on the inset overlay map.
Touch tuning of the Xponder, touch control of the AFCS, touch tuning of the new Garmin radios.
Touch setup of the EMS parameters which is a huge time saver over twisting knobs.

I am sure I am leaving some out but I have only flown three short flights so far with the unit. One thing that amazes me is how even though the GDU 46X appears to be designed from the ground up as a brand new hardware and software foundation, aside from the obvious touch user interface, it is still a G3X system and anyone familiar with the GDU 37X based system will be very familiar with it out of the box. TeamX really did a good job porting all the great things about the original G3X to the Touch. This is a major accomplishment since this is more than just slapping a touchscreen on top of an existing design.

Bill.Peyton said:

Steve,
I know we talked about this in a separate email, but has the Garmin team concluded that both the G3X and 650 TOGA lines can be tied together using a spst switch?

Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

We prefer to have good isolation between these inputs on the GEA/GSU and the GTN to make sure that neither can inadvertently affect the other. Please wire the TO/GA button using a DPDT switch as shown in the G3X Installation Manual.

Thanks,
Steve

A quick question for the Garmin experts about the GDU 46X display construction: Is the surface glass or plastic? I'm just wondering if I have to make sure my fingers are really clean to avoid putting micro scratches/hazing in the display.

Thanks!
Russ

Steve,
As always, thanks for the information.
Bill

grayforge said:

A quick question for the Garmin experts about the GDU 46X display construction: Is the surface glass or plastic? I'm just wondering if I have to make sure my fingers are really clean to avoid putting micro scratches/hazing in the display.

Thanks!
Russ

Click to expand...

Hello Russ,

Yes the surface of the GDU 460/465 is glass.

The glass is even a little thicker than typically used in non-touch screen displays to prevent what is referred to as "pooling" beneath you finger and around the edges when you press on the display.

This stronger glass adds a little weight, but is really important for a great user experience when designing a touch screen display this large.

Thanks,
Steve

Excellent, so I don't have to treat it like fine china.

What did you use to make the panel diagram?

Brantel said:

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Welcome to VAF!

GB, welcome to VAF

Pat Hatch said:

Yeah, it's pin #11 in connector P1002 of the 650, and pin #40 in the J244 connector of the GEA24. Both pins to ground. You need a double pole push button switch, too. Kind of a pain unless you provisioned for it at the beginning. Next time you have those connectors apart, add those pins!

It's a beautiful thing to watch the autopilot shoot your missed approach/enter the holding pattern for you!

Click to expand...

Pat,

Is this the correct pinout for the TOGA on the GTN 650? I only have revision 4 of the GTN 650 install manual, but it shows Pin #11 on P1002 as GSR Status In. Maybe that's changed in the new revisions?

That's literally the last pin on the 650, and of course everyone's at Oshkosh

I'd appreciate anyone's gouge here.

Thanks
Chris


p.s. Brian, the new panel is awesome, and I'm sure like others here it was an inspiration for mine - I'll have something similar soon hopefully.

Chris, yes you are correct. Pin #11 defaults to GSR STATUS IN and is a discrete input. But the discrete inputs can be re-assigned. Go to paragraph 6.6.13 of the GTN TSO Installation Manual which explains how to customize pin assignment for pin #11. Basically, you go through your choices on the Discrete Configuration Page of the GTN until you come to one labeled REMOTE GO AROUND, and select that one for Pin #11.

If you have any problems, you can contact me via PM and I'll walk you through it.

Finally got my hands on a GI 260. Tested it today and it works great.

I put it in the middle of the sunscreen and angled it toward the pilot. Seems to work fine in that location and does not block the sight line too much.

Brian, if you can imagine NOT having the GMC305, what tasks would you say are mildly more difficult and which are significantly more difficult?

Finally! Where'd you find this unicorn? Mine was about to ship when Garmin asked the vendor to tweak the wiring a bit. Still waiting on that to happen.

humptybump said:

Brian, if you can imagine NOT having the GMC305, what tasks would you say are mildly more difficult and which are significantly more difficult?

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The ability to have a basic AP if all the screens die is one major advantage of the GMC 305. (Still need a working AHRS)

The new Touch has a screen that basically has all of the same features as the GMC 305 so the Touch has an advantage here over the original displays. When the GMC 305 came out, having dedicated buttons for the AP was a big improvement over the original displays.



To me it is always better to have dedicated buttons vs having to go to the screen and navigate to control the AP however the Touch makes this pretty painless.

The user manual does a great job explaining the differences with and without the GMC 305. Look at the AFCS section.

Brian,
Got my GI260 a month or so ago, but Stein said don't install it until I hear from him. Seems Garmin didn't have the wiring diagram just right yet. Did they get it figured out? Apparently so if yours works. Waiting for an update to the installation manual.

Scott Hersha said:

Brian,
Got my GI260 a month or so ago, but Stein said don't install it until I hear from him. Seems Garmin didn't have the wiring diagram just right yet. Did they get it figured out? Apparently so if yours works. Waiting for an update to the installation manual.

Click to expand...

Discuss this with TeamX. They will get you up and going...

mount for 796

Hello Brian. What mount did you use for your 796 set up? Do you have it wired into the avionics harness to share flight plans, etc? Thanks. Jeff

Gonzo24 said:

Hello Brian. What mount did you use for your 796 set up? Do you have it wired into the avionics harness to share flight plans, etc? Thanks. Jeff

Click to expand...

I used the bare wire cable mount that Garmin makes for the 796 and mounted a Ram mount ball onto it. I mounted another Ram mount ball to the panel and used a short straight clamp to connect them.

I have the GTN connected to my G3X Touch system and due to serial port limitations, I do not have the 796 connected to the G3X. Basically it is stand alone with the exception of the Bluetooth connection to the GDL39 3D (weather, traffic and attitude info).

good info

Thanks for the feedback Brian. Much appreciated!