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  #1  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:29 PM
tmpendergrass tmpendergrass is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 18
Default RV-6A Operating Costs

My dad and I are looking into buying an RV-6a or 7a. I have calculated our estimated operating costs and I want to put them up here so I can have some RV experts look my numbers over. Here is what I've come up with. Let me know If you think my estimations are off or if I'm missing something.

FIXED COSTS

Monthly Payment; $430 ($60k loan,15 yr term)
Insurance; $2000yr ($166/mo)
Tiedown at SNA; $1800yr ($150/mo)
Condition Inspection; $2000yr ($166/mo)
Maintenance Reserve; $1200yr ($100/mo)

This adds up to $12160 per year so I figure $500 a month "plane payment" for each of us. That's $16.43 per day. (Once the plane is paid off that would go down to $292 per month for each of us)

VARIABLE COSTS

Fuel; $56/hr (8gph at $7/gal)
Oil; $4/hr (1 QT per hour)
Engine Reserve; $10/hr
Engine Maintenance; $5/hr


That Adds up to $75 per flight hour of variable costs. If we each flew 100hrs per year(200 total) the total operating costs would be around $135/hr. A sports star LSA at a local FBO here goes for $127/hr.

If we each flew for just 50 hours per year, The cost would to closer to $200/hr. Still much less than renting an airplane of comparable speed(C-182, Cirrus SR-20)

Once the plane is paid off, these costs will get much cheaper. We could also sell a share to a third partner to reduce costs even more.

Would love to hear your feedback

T
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:53 PM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,580
Default

I think your variable costs are high. Fuel is about $6/gal depending on where you live, and if your engine uses a quart per hour there is something wrong - most use one quart every 8-10 hours, with some even better than that.

No idea how many hours are on the engine/plane you are considering, but $10 may be high if you are planning just a overhaul. On the other hand, that would also accommodate a prop overhaul. There is also the point that TBO doesn't apply as a compulsory thing for part 91 ops.

Over the last 145 hours, my variable costs for my -6a have come in at $56/hr, and this includes set-asides for engine and prop overhaul.
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RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:55 PM
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Mike S Mike S is online now
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 16,095
Default Welcome to VAF!

Thomas, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I think you are pretty high on some of your estimates, like cost of annual, cost of fuel, cost of oil.
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VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:59 PM
tmpendergrass tmpendergrass is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Thomas, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I think you are pretty high on some of your estimates, like cost of annual, cost of fuel, cost of oil.
I rather be high that be low ;-) 100LL here at SNA is $7.82 right now I would probably try to fill up at cheaper airports when possible
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:09 PM
tmpendergrass tmpendergrass is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefPilot View Post
I think your variable costs are high. Fuel is about $6/gal depending on where you live, and if your engine uses a quart per hour there is something wrong - most use one quart every 8-10 hours, with some even better than that.

No idea how many hours are on the engine/plane you are considering, but $10 may be high if you are planning just a overhaul. On the other hand, that would also accommodate a prop overhaul. There is also the point that TBO doesn't apply as a compulsory thing for part 91 ops.

Over the last 145 hours, my variable costs for my -6a have come in at $56/hr, and this includes set-asides for engine and prop overhaul.
I said a quart per hr just to make it a round $75 I rather be a little high on overhaul costs. I leaves some extra $$ to add electronic ignition, FADEC, or maybe even swap the motor for a diesel come overhaul time. It seems like most the RVs on the market have less than 500hrs so there should be plenty of life left in the engine.

Thanks
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:11 PM
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RONSIM RONSIM is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Largo, FL
Posts: 1,071
Default I think

your conservative estimates are appropriate --- I have owned several airplanes, in partnerships (15-18), and the "real" cost of most of them was around $300.00 hr, mainly because the usage numbers are usually much lower than forecast. After the first year or two, "most" airplanes spend a lot of time on the ground.

Not to say owning is not the way to go, but to justify it strictly on the dollars will disappoint you.
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RV-8A Maintained and flown (Sold)
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:19 PM
tmpendergrass tmpendergrass is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSIM View Post
your conservative estimates are appropriate --- I have owned several airplanes, in partnerships (15-18), and the "real" cost of most of them was around $300.00 hr, mainly because the usage numbers are usually much lower than forecast. After the first year or two, "most" airplanes spend a lot of time on the ground.

Not to say owning is not the way to go, but to justify it strictly on the dollars will disappoint you.
That is what we are most concerned about. If we are not flying a lot, the costs go up considerably, making renting or joining a flying club far more economical.

My parents want a good cross country cruiser to take them around the country. I want a fun, aerobatic airplane that I can fly on my days off and occasionally use for work. Renting a 172 doesn't satisfy either of these missions.

I figure that we could sell shares to more partners if the planes isn't flying enough.

Thanks
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:24 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmpendergrass View Post
Tiedown at SNA; $1800yr ($150/mo)
If you are describing an outdoor tie-down, you will be sick about leaving your new toy outdoors in about two weeks......

But I hope you can figure out a way to fit an RV into you and your dad's fleet.
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RV-6
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:27 PM
tmpendergrass tmpendergrass is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
If you are describing an outdoor tie-down, you will be sick about leaving your new toy outdoors in about two weeks......

But I hope you can figure out a way to fit an RV into you and your dad's fleet.
The tiedowns covered by a canopy.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2013, 01:34 PM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Not much to add

My cruise fuel burn rate is higher 10-11 gph with a O-360-A1A and C/S Hartzell. I used to get exactly 10 gph with a O-360-A4M in the Archer II we had based at SNA for 22 years (Tiedown #304 - there may be a red/silver/black ghost of a PA28-181 there). Oil estimate is far too high - as previous poster said 8-10 hours per quart (0.125 to 0.1 qt/hr) is more common. My wife Jeanine and I built our RV-6A in Laguna Hills before I retired and I flew to work every day from SNA to EMT and I never bought my fuel at SNA. I still fly all over the country to participate in ~20 air races per year and I have never yet seen fuel prices as high as what you are quoting for SNA. I usually see them in the low $6+ range at the expensive stops. The tiedown cost at SNA sounds about the same as when I left there in 2004. I am now paying $160/month for a large T-hangar with good lighting and electrical outlets in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Speed ... I routinely beat Bonanzas and Mooneys. I extracted all of the RV-6A speeds from the SARL database available for download at www.sportairrace.org and pasted them here for you:

Race Date Class A/C Type Pilot/Crew KTS MPH
AirVenture Cup 2012 7/22/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 195.26 224.70
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 194.56 223.89
Taylor 150, 2013 4/13/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 193.71 222.92
Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 192.80 221.87
BCAF 2013 5/3/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 192.30 221.3
Memorial Day, Terrell, TX 5/25/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.97 219.77
Great Northwest Air Race IV 9/7/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.90 219.68
Firecracker 100, Marysville, OH 6/29/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.64 219.39
Ghost Run Air Race, Jasper, TX 10/27/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 189.21 217.73
Lone Star Air Rally, 2012 10/6/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 189.28 217.68
MERFI Air Race 2013 8/24/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.87 217.35
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 188.36 216.80
Pappy Boyington Memorial Cup 8/17/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.26 216.64
Ozark Grove AR, Grove, OK 11/3/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.22 216.6
Mount Vernon 100, Ilinois 7/27/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.15 216.51
Hill Country 150 II 4/27/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.05 216.4
Big Sky Air Race, Townsend, MT 7/6/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.89 216.22
GNAR III, Ephrata, WA 6/16/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.74 216.05
MERFI 150, Urbana, Ohio 8/25/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.68 215.98
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.52 215.83
Indy Air Race 2013 8/10/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 186.72 214.88
Pagosa Springs 160 9/21/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 186.54 214.52
Indy Air Race 2012 8/11/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.39 213.35
Cleveland Air Race, 2012 10/13/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.33 213.27
AirCap 200 8/24/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.16 213.08
Tullahoma 150, Tennessee 9/29/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.02 212.91
Hill Country 150, 2012 4/21/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.97 212.86
Rocket 100, Taylor, TX 11/10/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.77 212.63
BCAF Time Trial 4/28/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.38 212.18
BSAR II, Three Forks, MT 7/7/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.99 211.74
Pappy Boyington Memorial Cup 8/18/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.86 211.59
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.83 211.55
Taylor 150, 2011 4/2/11 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.41 211.07
Big Muddy, Carbondale, IL 6/9/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.34 210.98
Texoma 100, 2013 4/6/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 182.69 210.24
Taylor 100 2009 3/16/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 182.35 209.85
AirVenture Cup 2013 7/28/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 182.15 209.61
Taylor 150, 2012 4/14/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 181.47 208.84
BCAF 150, 2008 5/4/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 181.45 208.81
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 181.23 208.54
Texoma 100, 2012 3/31/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 180.87 208.14
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 180.26 207.44
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 179.99 207.13
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 179.83 206.94
Memorial 150, Terrell, TX 5/26/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 178.44 206.28
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.98 205.97
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Red RV-6A Klusmier, Larry 178.90 205.87
Colorado 150, 2008 6/29/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.63 205.56
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 178.04 204.89
Pagosa Springs 150, Colorado 9/22/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 177.22 203.94
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.86 203.52
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.33 202.92
BSAR II, Three Forks, MT 7/7/12 RV Blue RV-6A Klewin, Kurt 172.79 198.84
Wichita 300 7/17/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 169.91 195.53
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 RV Blue RV-6A Kukura, Dave 169.62 195.20
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 168.72 194.16
Thunderbird Air Race, 2012 10/13/12 RV Red RV-6A Ahrens, David 167.42 192.66
Big Sky Air Race 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-6A Klewin, Kurt 165.48 190.44
Texoma 100, 2012 3/31/12 RV Blue RV-6A Gehle, Dave 165.08 189.97
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 RV Blue RV-6A Nymeyer, Rance 164.12 188.86
Rocket 100, 2011 11/19/11 RV Blue RV-6A Moore, Mike 163.43 188.08
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Red RV-6A Phillips, Mark 162.66 187.19
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 161.75 186.17
Ozark Grove AR, Grove, OK 11/3/12 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 160.07 184.21
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Lee, Ron 158.66 182.59
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A Bivens, Darrell 154.86 178.21
Great NW Air Race 6/13/10 RV Red RV-6A Hungelmann, Bill 152.37 175.35
Texoma 100, 2013 4/6/13 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 145.01 166.88
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A McGinnis, Patrick 144.92 166.77

I wish I had not retired and left southern California even with its high prices - the best and brightest cancer doctors do not flock to small towns in NW Arkansas to perform their work. I now fly alone.

Bob Axsom

Last edited by Bob Axsom : 09-30-2013 at 02:02 PM.
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