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  #1  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:46 PM
recapen recapen is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Laurel, DE
Posts: 363
Default Stabilized IFR approach in a 6A

I am currently working on my IFR rating in my 6A.
I have a 430W, SL-30, S-Tec-30 with standart steam guages.
IO360B1F6 with MTV12B CS prop.

Using approx 17"MAP and 2000RPM for 90 KIAS flying around.
My instructor wants minimum adjustments in the event of a go around so I've been trying Full rich with 2500RPM and 13"MAP (I think that's what I remember using) as I descend so that all I need is to add throttle if a missed approach is called for!

Anyone else flying final this way?
How are you doing it?
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"Patience"
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2018, 04:50 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,313
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It?s certainly easier to fly an ILS if you avoid making large power or configuration changes as you get in close. So most cfii?s will recommend doing the landing check list some distance out - maybe the FAF, but no later than 1000? agl. This would include gas on fullest tank, fuel pump on, flaps in approach configuration, gear down, mixture and prop full in (except for high elevation airports). Now, for the airlines, ?stabilized approach? means no configuration changes right down to the flare. You can do that too, but it will require a long runway or a slower approach speed. Here?s what I do1) if visibility is reported as a mile or more (day)(2-3miles night), I?ll fly the approach around 100 kias. When/if field is in sight, reduce power add flaps, madly re-trim for 70 kias, land. (2) If visibility is 1/2 to 1 mile, then before reaching 1000? agl, I will have slowed to 75 kias with 20 deg of flaps, and have the plane trimmed to maintain the GS at that speed. Only minor adjustments until the flare. #2 looks like the airlines? version of a stabilized approach. Unfortunately it?s tough to practice - you have to find the right wx.
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:17 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,888
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I am FP, so not sure this helps. I slow down to 90 or 100 Kts and add 10* of flaps at either the FAF or GS intercept. Rest of flaps go in after having the runway in sight (while it hasn't happened to me, I would slow down and add more flaps on the approach for a short runway at ILS minimums). With 6000 foot runways, I have no concerns being forced to land with just the 10* of flaps. For me, the RPM varies a bit based upon the wind. I work the throttle as I settle on the GS to get the speed I want for the conditions.

I don't fully understand the CFI's concerns. If you aren't capable of pushing in an extra knob without crashing at 200 AGL, I would not think you are prepared for the greater challenges of maintaining the LOC and GS on a windy and turbulent day. I find that much more difficult than pushing in a knob. For me anyways, pushing in the throttle is pretty much muscle memory and requires no thought or even looking at it. Prop should be the same.

When I was in primary training in the 172, I was taught to firewall both the carb heat and throttle with the same motion for a go around. Should be easy to to the same with the blue knob.

Larry
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N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 10-17-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2018, 01:14 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post

I don't fully understand the CFI's concerns. If you aren't capable of pushing in an extra knob without crashing at 200 AGL, I would not think you are prepared for the greater challenges of maintaining the LOC and GS on a windy and turbulent day. I find that much more difficult than pushing in a knob. For me anyways, pushing in the throttle is pretty much muscle memory and requires no thought or even looking at it. Prop should be the same.

When I was in primary training in the 172, I was taught to firewall both the carb heat and throttle with the same motion for a go around. Should be easy to to the same with the blue knob.

Larry
I?ll bet that same cfi had you set the mixture full rich prior to landing. Why? In a go-around, it?s just one more knob to remember. The answer is, why make a stressful situation more difficult, when there is no harm in being prepared early?
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2018, 02:53 AM
tanevans tanevans is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 6
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I fly our RV9A very similarly in IFR. I try to set up the airplane in a way to make very few adjustments inside the FAF. In my airplane....
-17inches, 2300rpm, mixture LOP, and no flaps works well for maneuvering at 90kts.
-At the FAF (or glide slope intercept) dropping 10deg flaps and reduction to 12.5" sets up a perfect 500-600ft/min decent. (Doing this also allows pushing mix and prop all the way in during gumps without a prop surge).
-I do GUMPS checklist at the FAF and adjust nothing but throttle until the go around or the runway in sight.
-With runway in sight I will add additional flaps as needed. If IFR into a short field I will add 20deg flaps at FAF to minimize adjustments inside the FAF.

IFR flying in the RV is tons of fun! Good luck with your training.
-Tanner
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2018, 06:27 AM
Latech15 Latech15 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: louisiana
Posts: 160
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I have been practicing a lot of approaches in my 6A as well. Mine is a fixed pitch prop, so the setup is easier for me, but I have found that I have a real hard time not getting too fast on the glide slope with only 10 degrees of flaps in. In order to stay on GS and 90 knots, I put in 20 degrees of flaps just before the faf or gs intercept. Anybody else have that issue?
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2018, 06:40 AM
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rolivi rolivi is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 542
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Curious Latech15, which engine you running and what RPM's are working for you?

I have a 160hp 0-320 with a fixed Catto 3-blade so I'd like to borrow some of your settings.

Thanks!
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:20 AM
Flynjay Flynjay is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recapen View Post
I am currently working on my IFR rating in my 6A.
I have a 430W, SL-30, S-Tec-30 with standart steam guages.
IO360B1F6 with MTV12B CS prop.

Using approx 17"MAP and 2000RPM for 90 KIAS flying around.
My instructor wants minimum adjustments in the event of a go around so I've been trying Full rich with 2500RPM and 13"MAP (I think that's what I remember using) as I descend so that all I need is to add throttle if a missed approach is called for!

Anyone else flying final this way?
How are you doing it?
I completely agree with your instructor. A true IFR missed approach is a critical, high workload time, especially single pilot. You are close to the ground with zero visibility. Whatever you decide to do that works for you and your airplane, do it the same way every time regardless of the weather conditions.

Know the power settings for 300,400,500,600 fpm descents on approach, to adjust the GS for winds (even a tailwind, it could be a circling approach to the opposite runway). Set your prop rpm with the missed in mind, it doesn't have to be full power (flame suit on). My preference is at the FAF. Also know when to transition from approach to landing configuration. I like to keep my approach flap profile as consistent as possible so follow my standard pattern altitudes and flap configurations. I.E. 10/1000, 20/800, landing/runway insight. I don't want to be in a panic to suddenly slow to landing configuration when I pop out of IMC at 300 ft. I have never flown a slippery airplane, but I imagine it is 100x worse than the spam cans I fly.

Know the power configuration required to maintain level flight for each flap configuration. If you need to arrest your decent at any time you can apply this power level and know you will be maintaining approach speed (or close to it).

I have had the GPS loose signal just inside the FAF in IMC. It's not a time to be having extra items to "think" about.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate

My 2c, for what it's worth.
IFR Certified: 12/2017, trained in C172 & Arrow
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:55 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanevans View Post
I fly our RV9A very similarly in IFR. I try to set up the airplane in a way to make very few adjustments inside the FAF. In my airplane....
-17inches, 2300rpm, mixture LOP, and no flaps works well for maneuvering at 90kts.
-At the FAF (or glide slope intercept) dropping 10deg flaps and reduction to 12.5" sets up a perfect 500-600ft/min decent. (Doing this also allows pushing mix and prop all the way in during gumps without a prop surge).
-I do GUMPS checklist at the FAF and adjust nothing but throttle until the go around or the runway in sight.
-With runway in sight I will add additional flaps as needed. If IFR into a short field I will add 20deg flaps at FAF to minimize adjustments inside the FAF.

IFR flying in the RV is tons of fun! Good luck with your training.
-Tanner
Pretty much exactly the same for me in my 9A. I drop 10 degrees of flaps at the FAF or just prior and it sets up nicely for the descent. Full disclosure - I'm not rated yet, my checkride has been moved twice in the last week due to really low weather, currently set for Tuesday next week.
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Garden City, TX VAF 2021 dues paid
N16GN flying 750 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:39 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I’ll bet that same cfi had you set the mixture full rich prior to landing. Why? In a go-around, it’s just one more knob to remember. The answer is, why make a stressful situation more difficult, when there is no harm in being prepared early?
That certainly makes sense. I was under the impression that going full prop was creating a challenge in getting the desired speed for the OP. If there is no down side, I agree fully with do it early. I have only limited experience with CS props, though I do recall being taught to go full prop in the pattern.

Larry
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N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
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