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  #21  
Old 05-18-2015, 05:04 PM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Default ETX680 specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Thanks Kathy,

Do you have preliminary specs for the 680?

Approximate price?

Can you take an advance order?

Bevan
Hi Bevan,

Sorry not yet but the moment we have all the details, we will let you know. We do not have the exact price yet but it will be slightly higher but we will offer it at an introduction rate of $349 for a limited time.

Kathy
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Kathy
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2015, 02:52 PM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Default Mandatory Service Bulletin from Rotax

One of our aircraft manufacturers sent this alert to us today and thought it was important information to pass on. It was a mandatory alert sent out on May 29, 2015 by Rotax concerning the use of lithium batteries in aircraft.

What I found exciting and interesting is they actually copied verbatim from our spec's and website the features the BMS must have to be approved.

Here is a copy of the alert:
NEW RELEASE
MANDATORY
ROTAX 912i (series)
ALERT SERVICE BULLETIN:

"The use of lithium-ion batteries in combination with the ROTAX Engine Type 912 i Series"
ASB-912 i-005iS
ROTAX 912iS & 912iS Sport aircraft engines are approved for operation with lithium-ion batteries if the aircraft has been equipped with a suitable battery management system (qualified by the aircraft manufacturer).

This requirement has been specified in the 912 i (series) installation manuals since Edition 1 Revision 2. The purpose of this bulletin is to bring this to the attention of users of engines delivered with earlier (Rev.0 or Rev.1) versions of the installation manual.

This is a MANDATORY alert service bulletin, and users of lithium-ion batteries should verify that their battery includes a suitable battery management system BEFORE THE NEXT FLIGHT.


WHY USE A BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
Lithium batteries are fundamentally different than lead-acid batteries. If overheated or overcharged, Li-Ion cells are prone to accelerated cell degradation and can catch fire or even explode. The lithium cells inside the battery need electronics to monitor and balance the voltage & charge level of the individual cells.

Some older types of lithium batteries require an external balancing charger, which you have to plug in periodically to ?top off? and balance the cells. These kinds of batteries are NOT approved.
The more modern lithium batteries have a built-in microprocessor Battery Management System (BMS) that continuously monitors the charge level of each cell and balances the charge when needed, protecting the cells from overcharge or over-discharge. Some can also provide short circuit protection, and excessive cranking protection.

Typically, the individual cells in a battery have somewhat different capacities and may be at different levels of state of charge (SOC). Without balancing, the cell of smallest capacity is a "weak point", it can be easily overcharged or over-discharged while cells with higher capacity undergo only partial cycle. For the higher capacity cells to undergo full charge/discharge cycle of the largest amplitude, balancer should ?protect? the weaker cells; so that in a balanced battery, the cell with the largest capacity can be filled without overcharging any other (i. e. weaker, smaller) cell, and it can be emptied without over-discharging any other cell. Battery balancing is done by transferring energy from or to individual cells, until the SOC of the cell with the lowest capacity is equal to the battery's SOC.

A full battery management system (BMS) might include active balancing as well as temperature monitoring, charging, and other features to maximize the life of the battery pack.

Bottom line: if you use a lithium battery in your aircraft, make sure it includes a built-in Battery Management System.

Here is the link to the actual alert: http://legacy.rotaxowner.com/si_tb_i...912i-005is.pdf

Kathy
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Kathy
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2015, 09:06 PM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Default NEW AIRCRAFT BATTERY MODELS ARE HERE!

As promised to the Van's forum readers, you are the first to know that the new aircraft lithium batteries are now available for pre-order on the website and they are scheduled to ship at the end of July 17th week.

All of our batteries meet the criteria set forth by Rotax to be an approved lithium battery, (and we are the only lithium battery on the market to have this approval), but what these 3 new models bring (ETX680, ETX900, ETX1200) in addition to what the other models have is:
1. Redundant electronics for the BMS board
2. LED battery fault light indicator that can also be plugged into your control panel.
3. A higher cranking, more capacity models (ETX900, ETX1200) if you need or want more.

These new models will fit into any preexisting PC680 battery box hardware and we are also going to have an aluminum battery box for sale as well on the site that is rated for 30 G Force, and 7 ounces of weight. That isn't on the site yet, but by end of tomorrow it should be there. Check it out at www.earthxmotorsports.com

Thanks Van's for all your support!

Kathy
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Kathy

Last edited by EarthX Lithium : 07-08-2015 at 08:45 AM.
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2015, 08:32 AM
219PB 219PB is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Victoria, Tx
Posts: 448
Default

Here is a question for Earth X. My 680 battery box is on the firewall side of the aircraft. Is it acceptable to mount the Earth X in this location? I know that it is hotter but this is one of the most standard locations for aircraft.
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Paul Bonorden
RV-6A Flying
My Builders Website
Victoria, TX
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2015, 08:49 AM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Default

Dear Paul,

The ratings on the both batteries are: the PC680 is rated to 113 deg F. The ETX680 is rated to 140 deg F. I have had many builders/pilots install the ETX series on their firewall and no one has reported any issue with this. But you are on a great forum here and I am sure many will tell you their personal experiences as well with doing this as they are very responsive.

Kathy
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Kathy
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2015, 08:56 AM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
Posts: 432
Default you are taking my reasons to say no away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthX Lithium View Post
One of our aircraft manufacturers sent this alert to us today and thought it was important information to pass on. It was a mandatory alert sent out on May 29, 2015 by Rotax concerning the use of lithium batteries in aircraft.

What I found exciting and interesting is they actually copied verbatim from our spec's and website the features the BMS must have to be approved.

Here is a copy of the alert:
NEW RELEASE
MANDATORY
ROTAX 912i (series)
ALERT SERVICE BULLETIN:

"The use of lithium-ion batteries in combination with the ROTAX Engine Type 912 i Series"
ASB-912 i-005iS
ROTAX 912iS & 912iS Sport aircraft engines are approved for operation with lithium-ion batteries if the aircraft has been equipped with a suitable battery management system (qualified by the aircraft manufacturer).

This requirement has been specified in the 912 i (series) installation manuals since Edition 1 Revision 2. The purpose of this bulletin is to bring this to the attention of users of engines delivered with earlier (Rev.0 or Rev.1) versions of the installation manual.

This is a MANDATORY alert service bulletin, and users of lithium-ion batteries should verify that their battery includes a suitable battery management system BEFORE THE NEXT FLIGHT.


WHY USE A BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
Lithium batteries are fundamentally different than lead-acid batteries. If overheated or overcharged, Li-Ion cells are prone to accelerated cell degradation and can catch fire or even explode. The lithium cells inside the battery need electronics to monitor and balance the voltage & charge level of the individual cells.

Some older types of lithium batteries require an external balancing charger, which you have to plug in periodically to ?top off? and balance the cells. These kinds of batteries are NOT approved.
The more modern lithium batteries have a built-in microprocessor Battery Management System (BMS) that continuously monitors the charge level of each cell and balances the charge when needed, protecting the cells from overcharge or over-discharge. Some can also provide short circuit protection, and excessive cranking protection.

Typically, the individual cells in a battery have somewhat different capacities and may be at different levels of state of charge (SOC). Without balancing, the cell of smallest capacity is a "weak point", it can be easily overcharged or over-discharged while cells with higher capacity undergo only partial cycle. For the higher capacity cells to undergo full charge/discharge cycle of the largest amplitude, balancer should ?protect? the weaker cells; so that in a balanced battery, the cell with the largest capacity can be filled without overcharging any other (i. e. weaker, smaller) cell, and it can be emptied without over-discharging any other cell. Battery balancing is done by transferring energy from or to individual cells, until the SOC of the cell with the lowest capacity is equal to the battery's SOC.

A full battery management system (BMS) might include active balancing as well as temperature monitoring, charging, and other features to maximize the life of the battery pack.

Bottom line: if you use a lithium battery in your aircraft, make sure it includes a built-in Battery Management System.

Here is the link to the actual alert: http://legacy.rotaxowner.com/si_tb_i...912i-005is.pdf

Kathy
My big one is this, what happens if I leave the master on overnight in my plane? I have believed that Lithium batteries once run all the way down are ruined. Does your BMS cover this and how does it work please? I did not see anything on the website about over discharge.

Also my plane has a separate 7.4AH backup battery, what would you recommend to replace this?

Thanks for your participation on our VAF site!
__________________
Bill Fearheiley
Lake Norman, NC (14A)
RV7a N705RP (no longer own)
Contribution in for 2017, money well spent
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2015, 09:10 AM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFear View Post
My big one is this, what happens if I leave the master on overnight in my plane? I have believed that Lithium batteries once run all the way down are ruined. Does your BMS cover this and how does it work please? I did not see anything on the website about over discharge.

Also my plane has a separate 7.4AH backup battery, what would you recommend to replace this?

Thanks for your participation on our VAF site!

Dear Paul,

I must say, I do have a lot of pilots that do exactly that, leave the master switch on so you would not be the first! So what happens when this situation happens is when the battery is drained to about 98%, there is an electrical switch that opens so it can not be drained down to the point of destroying the cells or compromising their stability. But that means the switch is open, you can not charge it up again until you reset the battery which takes about 1 second to do and we explain in detail on the website multiple ways this can be done. (FAQ section) You know the protection has been activated when you get a reading of close to 0V across the terminals. That means the circuit has been opened. Once you reset the circuit, you will see the voltage instantly jump to around 11+V as it was not actually drained to 0V.

You are absolutely correct in saying if you drain a lithium battery to below 9V, they are ruined. We are the only manufacturer to offer this feature, not only for you as a consumer to protect your investment (and how beyond frustrating it is when you realize you left a switch on to begin with but can you imagine how unhappy you would be if you ruined the battery as well) but to also protect the battery itself.

Under the documentation tab we also have the manual that will go into technical details as well for you to review.

As far as your back up battery, the ETX24C would replace the one you currently have but it has 8 amps instead of the 7.4 amps.

Thanks for the question!

Kathy
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Kathy
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2015, 09:43 AM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
Posts: 432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthX Lithium View Post
Dear Paul,

I must say, I do have a lot of pilots that do exactly that, leave the master switch on so you would not be the first! So what happens when this situation happens is when the battery is drained to about 98%, there is an electrical switch that opens so it can not be drained down to the point of destroying the cells or compromising their stability. But that means the switch is open, you can not charge it up again until you reset the battery which takes about 1 second to do and we explain in detail on the website multiple ways this can be done. (FAQ section) You know the protection has been activated when you get a reading of close to 0V across the terminals. That means the circuit has been opened. Once you reset the circuit, you will see the voltage instantly jump to around 11+V as it was not actually drained to 0V.

You are absolutely correct in saying if you drain a lithium battery to below 9V, they are ruined. We are the only manufacturer to offer this feature, not only for you as a consumer to protect your investment (and how beyond frustrating it is when you realize you left a switch on to begin with but can you imagine how unhappy you would be if you ruined the battery as well) but to also protect the battery itself.

Under the documentation tab we also have the manual that will go into technical details as well for you to review.

As far as your back up battery, the ETX24C would replace the one you currently have but it has 8 amps instead of the 7.4 amps.

Thanks for the question!

Kathy
Thanks for that, reviewed the information about restoring a battery that has shut down because of over discharge. Remember our RVs have cowls that make battery access a real pain. Ours has a charge/jump port that comes to the oil filler door. So my question is, if the battery is in shut-down mode, I can jump start the plane from a power cart. Once this is complete and the alternator is on-line, will the battery now come out of protection mode and charge back up?
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Lake Norman, NC (14A)
RV7a N705RP (no longer own)
Contribution in for 2017, money well spent
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2015, 10:42 AM
ChiefPilot's Avatar
ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,576
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthX Lithium View Post
You are absolutely correct in saying if you drain a lithium battery to below 9V, they are ruined. We are the only manufacturer to offer this feature, not only for you as a consumer to protect your investment (and how beyond frustrating it is when you realize you left a switch on to begin with but can you imagine how unhappy you would be if you ruined the battery as well) but to also protect the battery itself.
Absolutely not true. If it were, a couple of non-EarthX LiFePO4 batteries I am aware of wouldn't still be working. I've accidentally left my master on, and after recharging my non-EarthX brand LiFePO4 battery it provided the same level of reserve as it did previously.

While it's awesome that EarthX is seeking opinions and such from VAF, information such as this crosses the line into FUD - "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt".
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RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2015, 01:01 PM
EarthX Lithium EarthX Lithium is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Windsor, CO
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFear View Post
Thanks for that, reviewed the information about restoring a battery that has shut down because of over discharge. Remember our RVs have cowls that make battery access a real pain. Ours has a charge/jump port that comes to the oil filler door. So my question is, if the battery is in shut-down mode, I can jump start the plane from a power cart. Once this is complete and the alternator is on-line, will the battery now come out of protection mode and charge back up?
Thanks Bill for the question! We do have an quick connect permanent battery cable that you can attach to the battery and jump start or charge from this cable. At Oshkosh last year pilots did explain exactly what you mentioned here about the difficulty of reaching the battery so this cable is 20 inches long and can handle up to 400 amps. Glasair Aircraft also has this issue and has requested a 36 inch long cable so they can have it accessible in the little "trap" door they have in the control panel. (We are working on it). But you need to remember that in the event the over discharge protection has been activated, you must also charge the battery as well as reset the circuit as it switched off because it was being drained. The best way to do this is charge it back with a charger at a slow rate. All batteries do better with a slow charge. But to answer your question, can you jump if from the power cart? Yes. Can it then be recharged by the alternator? Yes, but it would be best to do it with a charger as your alternator will charge it at the max output (typically 60 amps for the RV's) and a small amp charger would be best.


Kathy
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Kathy
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