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  #1  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 204
Default Military aircraft

Just a FYI, as of (soon), military aircraft have the option of turning off their ADS-B transmissions in locations that otherwise would require it. (link to the Federal Register here).

I saw a Black Hawk from the ground that was not broadcasting (though its not 2020 yet!), however, I did see him on the TIS feed from ATC. Possible the heli wasnt ADSB equipped yet though, or they turned it off.
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:40 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Location: Charlotte NC
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Default

Most likely not equipped. A substantial portion of the military fleet will not meet the deadline. All military aircraft I am aware of have the ability to stop all electronic emissions from the aircraft usually by just pushing one switch. The reasons are obvious.
G
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  #3  
Old 09-20-2019, 04:40 PM
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pazmanyflyer pazmanyflyer is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
Most likely not equipped. A substantial portion of the military fleet will not meet the deadline. All military aircraft I am aware of have the ability to stop all electronic emissions from the aircraft usually by just pushing one switch. The reasons are obvious.
G
Correct. Just had a Lt. Col. from Luke AFB give a talk to our EAA chapter of their procedures and practices and was told they do not have ADSB.
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2019, 07:14 PM
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mulde35d mulde35d is offline
 
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Default Hawks

I can confirm most Blackhawks are not yet equipped.
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2019, 06:45 AM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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FWIW the FAR's do not apply to military aircraft.
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:00 PM
N733JJ N733JJ is offline
 
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Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalinHdz View Post
FWIW the FAR's do not apply to military aircraft.
Actually, FAR does apply to military aircraft though they have some waivers.


?91.1***Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), (e), and (f) of this section and ??91.701 and 91.703,
this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft within the United States, including
the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.
(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nau-
tical miles from the coast of the United States must comply with ??91.1 through 91.21; ??91.101
through 91.143; ??91.151 through 91.159; ??91.167 through 91.193; ?91.203; ?91.205; ??91.209
through 91.217; ?91.221, ?91.225; ??91.303 through 91.319; ??91.323 through 91.327; ?91.605;
?91.609; ??91.703 through 91.715; and ?91.903.
(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless
otherwise specified.
(d) This part also establishes requirements for operators to take actions to support the continued
airworthiness of each airplane.
(e) This part does not apply to any aircraft or vehicle governed by part 103 of this chapter, or
subparts B, C, or D of part 101 of this chapter.
(f) Except as provided in ??107.13, 107.27, 107.47, 107.57, and 107.59 of this chapter, this part
does not apply to any aircraft governed by part 107 of this chapter
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N733JJ View Post
Actually, FAR does apply to military aircraft though they have some waivers.


?91.1***Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), (e), and (f) of this section and ??91.701 and 91.703,
this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft within the United States, including
the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.
(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nau-
tical miles from the coast of the United States must comply with ??91.1 through 91.21; ??91.101
through 91.143; ??91.151 through 91.159; ??91.167 through 91.193; ?91.203; ?91.205; ??91.209
through 91.217; ?91.221, ?91.225; ??91.303 through 91.319; ??91.323 through 91.327; ?91.605;
?91.609; ??91.703 through 91.715; and ?91.903.
(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless
otherwise specified.
(d) This part also establishes requirements for operators to take actions to support the continued
airworthiness of each airplane.
(e) This part does not apply to any aircraft or vehicle governed by part 103 of this chapter, or
subparts B, C, or D of part 101 of this chapter.
(f) Except as provided in ??107.13, 107.27, 107.47, 107.57, and 107.59 of this chapter, this part
does not apply to any aircraft governed by part 107 of this chapter
Actually not.
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:54 PM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8iator View Post
Actually not.
^^^ THIS ^^^

The FAA governs civilian aviation and does not govern military aviation. The military has their own rules and regulations, but voluntarily follow FAA regulations when flying in National Airspace, except when they decide it isn't best for them to do so. That entire section you quote applies to civilian aviation under the different parts.
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Last edited by GalinHdz : 09-21-2019 at 10:04 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:25 PM
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sahrens sahrens is offline
 
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Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 487
Default Some do and some don?t

For example if you look at 91.175 and 176 you will see language that specifically excludes military aircraft. In some cases the wording is except public aircraft. If you go to FAR 1 you will see the definition of public aircraft as military. The actual definition is much longer and I?m too lazy to copy it. If the military was completely exempt there would be no reason to exclude them within specific FARs.

Sometimes the military is exempt by letter of agreement which allows military aircraft / aircrews to do the things we need to do. Those are usually resigned each year without fanfare. Before NVGs become encoded in the FARs most of what we did lights out was by letter of agreement. I don?t know if those exemptions still exist or what is included.

When there is ?problem? ATC will contact a military representative (a Designated Airspace Representative) and the investigation is handled internally. But occasionally it is handled outside the military chain of command. If the FAA can get the crew members name and they have a civilian ticket they can take action. I know of two cases where pilots were under consideration for civil suspension for actions in a military aircraft.

Having said all that, 99.9% of the time a military aircrew operating within their specific service rules would never have any problems violating FARs.
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:21 AM
dutchroll dutchroll is offline
 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 125
Default

In our country (I suspect the USA is fairly similar), military aircraft are specifically exempt from civil aviation regs. But..... military policy is normally to comply where possible, in the interests of aviation safety for everyone. I remember more than one pilot in my day being dragged into the squadron commander?s office after busting civil regs outside military airspace for no good reason.

As far as equipping military aircraft with ADSB and other avionics which the aircraft may not have been originally designed with, you probably need to have served in the military to realise how long the bureaucracy and the supply/engineering chain takes to get these things moving!
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