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  #11  
Old 06-01-2021, 08:17 AM
lr172 lr172 is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
To be open, I pretty much quit updating Nav and terrain databases in the EFIS’es because:

A) I have up to date NAV data on my iPad and iPhone all the time
B) In the IFR airplanes, I have an IFR navigator with up to date Nav data
C) In the VFR-only airplanes, see (A) above

And

D) Terrain and airport locations rarely change on a human timescale....

Paul
I am in the same camp. I feel the only thing that I am missing is up to date obstacle data (technically on the ipad, but no EFIS warnings), but it seems that the really tall stuff (1000' TV antenna) doesn't change much and I am not worried about the 200' cell towers constantly popping up, as I rarely fly at 200' AGL.

I put non-touch G3X's in my 10 two yeas ago. Saved a hefty sum and don't feel that I am missing much, as I am not a fan of touch screens. As long as the manufacturer seems committed to the older gear, no real issue going that route. Some of us are gadgets guys and need the latest/greatest and some are not. Personal choice.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 06-01-2021 at 08:24 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2021, 08:23 AM
bill.hutchison bill.hutchison is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Northern VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan View Post
One time I had that philosophy, but then there was a number of airports had their designations changed. 😟. Finding airports in the database became hard forcing me to update.
Tangential issue....

I saw a variant of this just this morning, when I was teaching an IR student in a simulator about VOR tracking and victor airways.

The sim database, which had not been updated in a long time contained a fix and an airway that no longer exist. The poor guy was getting frustrated as I told him to intercept an airway and fly to a specific intersection. He couldn't find it on his Foreflight chart because it literally didn't exist. Found out later it was because the specific VOR had been de-commissioned and the sim hadn't been updated.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2021, 08:51 AM
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MacCool MacCool is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: central Minnesota
Posts: 648
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Advanced Flight provides a Seattle Avionics subscription for $99/year. I don't update the map database immediately, but downloading a new database only takes a few minutes, and uploading the new database to the EFIS from the flash drive is simple and takes less than 60 seconds. So...I update it fairly often. I started doing this after some confusion landing at KDTL. Although the runway was the same, they changed its published heading and the confusion came when the runway heading didn't match what I had in the EFIS database. My 5400 provides an audio warning at startup if the database isn't current. I'm sure I could disable it in Settings, but haven't felt the need.

(I also have Foreflight and usually fly with an iPad suction-cupped to my panel).
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Last edited by MacCool : 06-01-2021 at 08:57 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:35 AM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
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Location: fort myers fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
Eventually, sure. But for most avionics, support for discontinued products seems to be pretty good for quite a long time (e.g., GNS-430W, etc.). I imagine that someday in the future, they may finally drop support for them, but then a whole cottage industry should spring up to support them; after all, you can still get avionics techs to work on some *really* ancient pieces of equipment, right?
i would not count on a cottage industry springing up to support un-supported equipment. newer designs use ultra high density surface mount chips, custom programmed and configured chips, and custom designed displays. these types of designs are not meant to be repaired. try to change a 164 pin surface mount chip.

the repair process is, change the whole board.

these types of components are most often made in big batch of "how many will we ever need?" run. when the supply is gone, it's over. sometimes that is long while, like in the case of the 430, however, even that is support is coming to an end. the killer there is the display screen. the supply is almost gone, and the cost to run a batch is not an economic possibility. when they are gone, garmin will shut down support and that will be the end of getting them fixed. the fact that garmin has been raising the price of repairs to those units indicates that they are trying to push people to upgrade rather than repair them.
there will be a market for used equipment, but the price will be based on throwing it away when it dies. which means if you are willing to take the risk, there will be very capable equipment at a good price, but maybe not a good long term economic idea.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2021, 02:17 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
i would not count on a cottage industry springing up to support un-supported equipment. newer designs use ultra high density surface mount chips, custom programmed and configured chips, and custom designed displays. these types of designs are not meant to be repaired. try to change a 164 pin surface mount chip.

the repair process is, change the whole board.

these types of components are most often made in big batch of "how many will we ever need?" run. when the supply is gone, it's over. sometimes that is long while, like in the case of the 430, however, even that is support is coming to an end. the killer there is the display screen. the supply is almost gone, and the cost to run a batch is not an economic possibility. when they are gone, garmin will shut down support and that will be the end of getting them fixed. the fact that garmin has been raising the price of repairs to those units indicates that they are trying to push people to upgrade rather than repair them.
there will be a market for used equipment, but the price will be based on throwing it away when it dies. which means if you are willing to take the risk, there will be very capable equipment at a good price, but maybe not a good long term economic idea.
Well, you have to pay your money and take your chances at *some* point. What's the alternative?

The 430W was end-of-lifed around a decade ago (just a few months after I bought mine, LOL!), and they're still supporting it. I don't know that it's "coming to an end" anytime soon, but so what? It's worked for 10 years, it'll probably work another 10, and if the worst happens and it fails and can't be repaired or replaced, well, guess I'll have to spend money. Goes with the hobby.

And unless your EFIS manufacturer goes out of business, most of them are new enough I expect we're at the beginning (or, at worst, the early middle) of the complete product lifecycle for any of them from the major players (Dynon, etc.).
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2021, 02:21 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
...in the case of the 430, however, even that is support is coming to an end. the killer there is the display screen. the supply is almost gone, and the cost to run a batch is not an economic possibility. when they are gone, garmin will shut down support and that will be the end of getting them fixed. the fact that garmin has been raising the price of repairs to those units indicates that they are trying to push people to upgrade rather than repair them.
BTW, I don't know what Garmin's business model is, but if a shortage of *one* component of a multi-component system shuts down the entirety of support, that seems pretty poor to me. What if what failed on a unit is NOT the display screen, and you have those parts on hand? Maybe it's not economical to keep people trained in how to do those repairs, but maybe there is still money to be made in continuing to repair the ones you can, eh?
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