Will it be a 7 or an 8

Hi, Ive been lurking here for about a year now. I am going to start building my RV this Febuary (06). I had planned on building a 7 tail dragger. I have the study plans for it and have been drooling over pictures of it. But time is near to start and I want to build the right plane for me.
I race a sail boat that I just about built, I ride high performance motorcycles and ride high performance bicyles. Getting the drift here?
I know either plane would be considered high performance, but?
I dont fly, I have never piloted a plane and havn't flown in a small plane in about 30 years aside from helecoptors. But it's a life long dream so why not?
I never had a boat before this one and I've had her for 15 years now and have used her alot.
So some questions that come to my novice mind are:
The best part of flying for me so far, is looking out the window. Is there a big difference in this reagard?
Alot of my flying will be done solo. Is weight (my wieght) off center an issue with the seven?
What other handling differences will there be?
And any thing any body has to say.
Thanks
Phil

You could probably search the archives for some of this info. I suggest you go to the areas airports, maybe Livermore, Half Moon Bay or San Carlos and try to hook up with some of these folks and sit in each model. You could try to hook up with the local EAA chapters or the Bay Area RV folks. But their link on Van's site goes to a very old website and their newsletter editor, I know, is now a member of my group since he moved up our way. In choosing any airplane you have to figure out what your typical "mission" or use would be. I would recommend taking a couple of flight lessons first also. Since you think you would fly solo all the time and list your preferences for high performance one person machines you would probably like an RV-8. But you can't go wrong either way really. The big key is to build the one you really want. Don't listen to all the "endless arguments" and let them sway your desires. Well, you should listen to the arguments for their valid points and then make up your own mind. Otherwise you won't have as much motivation to go out and work on the project. Don't ask me how I know this. All the RV's are awesome machines no matter how much we harass each other here

Phil
I raced motocross and street bikes. I won several championships on a mountain bike. Raced sailboats and have one national championship. Get the picture? Either RV will fit the bill! I have a RV7 because now I want the room of a side by side. I had a RV 4 and the centerline seating is the best for a personal fighter. But I feel the need for my lovely wife to enjoy the ride with me now. Stop drooling and start pounding rivets! Good Luck.

-7 or -8, you can't go wrong.

Phil,

Both planes are outstanding and you can't go wrong by building either of them, IMHO.

One of the reasons I'm building a -9 is my wife would like to take flying lessons in it when we finish and after talking to some flight instructors they felt more comfortable giving lessons in a side-by-side aircraft rather than in a tandem. Not that you can't learn in a tandem, it is just easier in a SbS as the instructor can see the instruments, etc.

Just another point to think about.

Still, I think the -8 is so good looking!

I think it boils down to whether you fly mostly by yourself or if you plan on flying with passengers a lot. If passengers are an afterthought, then the 8 would be the way to go -- your own personal fighter plane. But for passengers, the side by side 7 is the way to go. The passenger has a better view, can see what you are doing, you can make eye contact with them, etc.

... Bill

184 Phil said:

............ I had planned on building a 7 tail dragger. I have the study plans for it and have been drooling over pictures of it. But time is near to start and I want to build the right plane for me....................Alot of my flying will be done solo.......................... any thing any body has to say.
Thanks Phil

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Phil,
Whatever configuration RV you eventually decide upon will deliver in spades. This May past, I first flew my beautiful side-by-side RV-6A and its performance is outstanding and is a pure delight to fly. To date, I've given the first RV ride to 17 people and a real joy for me is the wow factor they invariably experience. That said, I fly solo probably 85% of the time and the empty seat next to me is usually occupied with little more than a cell phone and Flight Guide. I'm the type of person who enjoys the building process almost as much as flying. After having experienced the center-line perspective of a friend's Citabria, I knew the next airplane HAS to have among other things a side-wall mounted throttle quadrant and military type cockpit environment to satisfy the Walter Mitty fighter jock in me. So, now I am building the tandem RV-8A. Who say's you can't have it both ways? Realistically though, you are going to have to do some thoughtful soul searching and try as best you can to envision what type of flying best resonates with your inner self. Rest assured that when it comes to RV's, whatever configuration you choose to build will not dissappoint.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 92 hours
RV-8A empennage complete

Decision

If you are planning to learn to fly in the RV you build, the -7 is the way to go.
Don't know of to many flight instructors that will teach you from the back seat of an -8. I have a flying -6 and am building a -8A. Just want something different. The side by side is nice even when your solo. Lots of room to put your stuff on the empty seat.

Chino Tom

We finally decided on the 7 because we wanted enough room to take the dog with us (stupid reason, I know). I tried to talk her into just getting a smaller dog. That didn't go over too well.

flybill7 said:

I think it boils down to whether you fly mostly by yourself or if you plan on flying with passengers a lot. If passengers are an afterthought, then the 8 would be the way to go -- your own personal fighter plane. But for passengers, the side by side 7 is the way to go. The passenger has a better view, can see what you are doing, you can make eye contact with them, etc.

... Bill

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With regard to side by side passengers, note that the interior width of the RV7/A is just a smidgeon more roomy (at the shoulders) than a Bonanza A-36.

Aren't factoids great!

Plan on flying IFR?

Two weekends ago I flew IFR with another RV pilot in my right seat. It was a pleasure being able to say, "here, hold this," and hand him stuff. Or, "pass me that approach plate," or whatever. And when I don't have a passenger, I have a wide open spot to keep my Jepp book, the AirMap book, cooler full of beer (j/k), whatever. Having the width makes it easier for me, personally.

Another thing is -- when just out having fun, I like to fly hard. Many of my passengers enjoy this kind of flying. But everybody has their limits. I like being able to detect that peripherally -- picking up on body language that says, "Hey, even though I just told you I feel absolutely fine, I'm lying." I like being able to relate to my passengers visually. Body language is everything when you're trying to keep your passenger calm and happy.

I would LOVE to fly an RV-8 or Rocket. I believe it has much better head and shoulder room than my -7 does when I have a passenger next to me. But overall the best choice for me was side-by-side because of the additional room for crap (you could argue...cut down on crap) and being able to see my passenger better (you could argue...fly solo or don't fly hard with pax). Let your predominant mission dictate.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

Like everyone has said - mission is everything. I'm going through the same gut wrench right now, My heart says "Go for the 8!", but my brain keeps telling me that two sets of golf clubs and the mountain bikes aint going to be taking the bus to Baja or Sedona by themselves. So now I'm leaning toward a Sportsman 2 + 2, and I'm actually kind of bummed out about it after spending a whole week at Oshkosh drooling over every 8 I could lay my eyes on. I have to also be realistic and figure that once I invest heavily in one, coming up with the cash to build the other Isn't going to happen short of winning a lottery. I really don't know right now...

Just an idea

Build a -10. This way, if someone wants to go with you, they have a choice of looking at the back of your head or looking out the front window.

Marshall Alexander
RV10
wings/tanks

Hey Phil,

I agree with Dan's comment of 'Let your predominant mission dictate'.
I've flown both the RV-6/7 and RV-8 solo from the front seat. They both offer incredible vis and each has their own special strong points.

You win either way!

Best,
Doug

The real question...

What you should really be asking yourself is which one are you going to build first.


Personally, I plan on building a 8A first, followed by a 10 so I can have fun by myself, and fun with a few friends.

You could try to hook up with the local EAA chapters or the Bay Area RV folks. I would recommend taking a couple of flight lessons first also.

Thanks Mikey,

I do plan on getting in with the San Carlos EAA chapter. I am on the 26 year waiting list for a hanger there. LOL.
I am afraid to start my lessons becuase I think once I start I will spend all my money on rental planes and will never build my own. But I may not be able to wait, the more I read about flying the more I want to do it now!

Tony Partain said:

Phil
I raced motocross and street bikes. I won several championships on a mountain bike. Raced sailboats and have one national championship. Get the picture? Stop drooling and start pounding rivets! Good Luck.

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Thanks Tony, WOW! that unbelievable! Am I you? LOL

Yep, drooling time is almost done. It's a long term plan, over two years old now but right on schedule.

N941WR said:

Phil,



One of the reasons I'm building a -9 is my wife would like to take flying lessons in it when we finish and after talking to some flight instructors they felt more comfortable giving lessons in a side-by-side aircraft rather than in a tandem. Not that you can't learn in a tandem, it is just easier in a SbS as the instructor can see the instruments, etc.

Just another point to think about.

Click to expand...

Bill, a very good point. I would like to use my own plane to learn as much as possible. I thought I read that an experimental could not be used for instruction. If this is correct would it be different if the student owned the plane?

jcoloccia said:

We finally decided on the 7 because we wanted enough room to take the dog with us (stupid reason, I know). I tried to talk her into just getting a smaller dog. That didn't go over too well.

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John, is your plane flying yet? I told my wife we could take the dog in the 7 also. But then I though about no seat belt for the dog and how loud it would be for her. Dose any body fly wth there dog? If so any issues?

I think I have exceeded my quoting limmit for the day. The forum wont let me quote any more.
Dan I do plan on flying IFR, and I know talk is cheap at this point but, judging how I do my other hobbies, yes I could see my crew getting a bit green. LOL.
Baja_Traveler. Dig the name. One of my driving forces behind this is I own a piece of sand in Baja. I plan on building my own house down there and the drive is just to long.
And yah, builiding a second plane in the future would be great but first things first. Plane #1 then house in Baja then who knows?

I thank you all for the feed back. This is very very helpfull. Thank you.
I am also happy to see that just because I have no experience and am full of big dreams that not a single negative word was spoken.

Thanks

Phil

184 Phil said:

John, is your plane flying yet? I told my wife we could take the dog in the 7 also. But then I though about no seat belt for the dog and how loud it would be for her. Dose any body fly wth there dog? If so any issues?

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Not unless you count aluminum being flung across the room by my fly cutter "flying" I'm still working on the emp.

This dog has flown in the back of a long-eze, though. Here's the thing with dogs and planes...the baggage compartment was designed to take 100lbs * X number of G's evenly distributed (I'm assuming either 3.8 or 4.4...I'm not sure what it's rated at for non-akro). How much force would be concentrated on a dog's 4 paws if it suddenly got spooked by something and jumped? If we do decide to do the dog thing, I would probably have to design some sort of seat/restraint.

184 Phil said:

I thank you all for the feed back. This is very very helpfull. Thank you.
I am also happy to see that just because I have no experience and am full of big dreams that not a single negative word was spoken.

Click to expand...

Phil,

I don't think there is a builder alive who isn't a dreamer. Welcome to the best hobby in the world! I hope you find building as much fun as flying.

184 Phil said:

Bill, a very good point. I would like to use my own plane to learn as much as possible. I thought I read that an experimental could not be used for instruction. If this is correct would it be different if the student owned the plane?

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It absolutely can be used for instruction... you just can't pay for rental time in an experimental (with a couple exceptions). That would turn it into a commercial enterprise. If it's your plane or one that someone has given you FREE flight time to use, you can then pay for an instructor to give you instruction in it. Am I correct in this?

One thing to add as well... and not to be a cup-half-full person...

Will you be able to find an instructor willing to instruct in something that you built? In some places and cases yes, in other places and cases maybe not. Just something to keep in mind.

Good luck.
Steve

alpinelakespilot2000 said:

Will you be able to find an instructor willing to instruct in something that you built? In some places and cases yes, in other places and cases maybe not. Just something to keep in mind.

Good luck.
Steve

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In my case, I've got two CFI's who are very interested in instructing me for my instrument ticket in my RV. Depending on where you're at, it shouldn't be too difficult finding an instructor who'd like someone to pay THEM to get some time in an RV.

The only problem with getting your original SEL ticket in your own RV is finding an instructor who has already had some time in an RV. An instructor needs to be familiar with the airplane you're learning in to keep you out of trouble.. fast.
If you have trouble finding such an instructor, it would still be financially beneficial to you to pay to send a willing instructor for an RV familiarization weekend with one of the known RV instructors, and then let your potential instructor fly your aircraft for a few hours by himself before giving you instruction in it. Since he's not paying you to use your RV, it's all legal.

Of course, your lessons may be delayed after he decides to order his own RV kit because his weekends will then be a little busy...

Shouldn't be a problem

alpinelakespilot2000 said:

Will you be able to find an instructor willing to instruct in something that you built? In some places and cases yes, in other places and cases maybe not. Just something to keep in mind.

Good luck.
Steve

Click to expand...

I have had no problem finding willing instructors to give instruction in my 7a. From my BFR to light aerobatic lessons - no one has turned me down yet.

jcoloccia said:

This dog has flown in the back of a long-eze, though. If we do decide to do the dog thing, I would probably have to design some sort of seat/restraint.

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John, I see there is another thread on dogs flying. Seems to be doable. My dog is a pussy though so we'll see.

Steve, Vern and N520TX,

Thanks that's good news. I'm also glad so many of you/us build first and learn later. I thought I was going to be the odd one.


Phil

Learning to fly after building

Phil--

A couple other things to keep in mind about building before you learn to fly. I'm definitely NOT trying to discourage you from doing so, but have noticed no one else has made these comments that have come up before in other forums.

1. Before you can be trained in your plane, it will have had to have its 25 or 40 hours flown off and the test phase complete. You don't want to (nor would it be legal I suspect) to try to learn in a plane that has not gone thorugh its test phase completely. Since you will not be able to do that, you're going to have to have someone else do it for you. They MAY not charge you to do it, but the plane still costs money to fly.

2. It was not until I had probably flown 100-200 hours that I really knew what I wanted my plane to be and what I wanted it to be equipped with (i.e. hp, prop type, instrument panel, etc.) You won't have that luxury. Engine, prop, and instrumental panel stuff cost far more than the airframe itself... you don't want to find 50 hours into learning to fly your new airplane that you wish you'd configured it differently.

In short, my advice, for what little it's worth, is to buy your 50 hours of flight time in a C150 right away. You may find you don't really like it as much as you thought or you may find you like it even more than you thought, but at least you'll be making decisions for your -7 or -8 from a PILOT's perspective. Besides, the cost of rental time for learning to fly is NOTHING compared to what you're going to pay to build your plane.

Good luck with your build decision. Either way, as others have said, you'll be happy I'm sure!

Steve, thanks for that. You are not discouraging me, you are giving me the info I need.
I knew it was going to be difficult to pick instruments, hadn't thought that much about prop or engine.
I knew I would have to have some body else (a test pilot ) do the first flight which I was not thrilled about. But I really don't want to have some body else fly the first 25-40 hours.
I am sure I want to fly, and am sure about building the plane. My original plan was to start buillding the 7 and start my flying lessons when I was about half way done. I think this is the plan I will stay with. I'm sure it won't be a bad thing to learn in a diferent or a few diferent planes, a more rounded education. And it won't be to late in the process to decide on the components of the plane.

Thanks again to everybody for your input.

Phil