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  #71  
Old 02-09-2022, 09:34 AM
mburch's Avatar
mburch mburch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanza View Post
My ESP was activated without my knowledge, an update.
Just to be clear for others reading this - the G3X ESP feature must be specifically enabled by the user in configuration mode (or, in some instances, by an S-LSA OEM via a configuration file). The user also has control over the default state of ESP on every flight (opt-in or opt-out) and of course ESP can always be disabled manually, or inhibited by holding the AP DISC button.
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  #72  
Old 02-09-2022, 01:49 PM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 3,267
Default ESP Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanza View Post
If the aircraft is acting in a way the pilot finds unsafe it must be possible
to turn the system off.
This is described in detail on page 305 of the G3X Touch Pilot's Guide (Revision S).

It requires nothing more than pressing and holding the AP Disconnect switch. Alternatively, you can disarm ESP in the AFCS menu.

ESP is disabled in your display when it leaves our factory. It must be enabled and configured by the installer to ever provide servo input to the controls. A review of the installation and operations documentation prior to enabling or using any feature on the system is critical for safe operation.

Please feel free to reach out to us directly if you have any questions about your system. The G3X Touch is a very capable flight deck, and there are a lot of different features to learn about, we are happy to point you in the right direction for anything you are unsure about.

Thanks,

Justin
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  #73  
Old 03-27-2022, 01:52 AM
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limadelta624 limadelta624 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Truckee, CA
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I am in 100% (no 100,000%) in agreement with Avanza on this. The pilot MUST be able to shut off all automation and be able to do so quickly. That is why my ESP is disabled.

Personally, I don't think it is enough that ESP is disabled when the red button is pushed because when you release it, ESP can take over again. This is highly reminiscent of the MCAS problem, which went beyond pilots not being trained in it. They literally could not hand fly the airplane without software interfering. That amounts to an egregious transfer of PIC authority from the pilot to a software engineer. The fact that Boeing felt the need to transfer control to software just exposes the flaw with mounting those engines on the airframe. With approval of the MAX, commercial aviation enters the world of fighter jets that require software control because they have difficult flight characteristics.

I don't want to have to default to having control relinquished to software. For this reason, my ESP will always be turned off so I KNOW I can permanently transfer control to ME without the fear of software trying to take over.

Happy and safe flying

Last edited by limadelta624 : 03-27-2022 at 03:15 PM.
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  #74  
Old 03-27-2022, 03:57 AM
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PaulvS PaulvS is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanza View Post
I understand that ESP may provide some help if the pilot does not pay attention in a multi miljon dollar aircraft. And I belive you are correct about that it requires training.
However in a sport aircraft with a pilot flying 20-50 h per year its my opinion
that it ads complexity that have a potential to get people killed.
My ESP was activated without my knowledge, an update.
Yes its my fault I did not read all the text about the update.
To me it happend on 3,000 ft. My friend will not fly with me again.
If the aircraft is acting in a way the pilot finds unsafe it must be possible
to turn the system off.
My opinion is that an autopilot must be able to be disconnected.
For this reason and purpose I plan to put a hard wired switch on the panel to control power to the AP servo motors. I feel more confident knowing that power to the servos can be cut instantly, rather than rely on software to read whether a button at the end of a thin piece of wire has been pressed!
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  #75  
Old 04-11-2022, 01:05 AM
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newt newt is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
For this reason and purpose I plan to put a hard wired switch on the panel to control power to the AP servo motors. I feel more confident knowing that power to the servos can be cut instantly, rather than rely on software to read whether a button at the end of a thin piece of wire has been pressed!
Two things:

1. There is provision in the G3X Touch system to wire a switch to a discrete input and assign it to ESP enable/disable. A lot of people use a toggle switch with a launch-control switch guard, which seems like a reasonable solution.

2. IMHO having a switch (or breaker) to control power to the AP servos is a good idea regardless of the presence or absence of ESP. For both autopilots I've had fitted to my airplane at various times, it's been a basic requirement. Putting yourself into a position where you might have to overpower the primary flight controls due to a software bug has never sat well with me.

On my G3X Touch system, I don't use ESP. But if I did, my suggestion would be to use the discrete input referenced in (1) above to enable/suppress that feature, and also have a switch or accessible breaker on the servo power supplies to protect against non-ESP autopilot failures.

I've used a Tyco-type switchable circuit breaker to kill two birds with one stone, but a Klixon-style pullable breaker is probably just as good for this application.

- mark
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  #76  
Old 04-11-2022, 10:55 AM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Location: Olathe, KS
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Default ESP Circuit Breakers

We explain exactly how ESP works in our documentation, if active, ESP can be disabled by pressing and holding the Autopilot disconnect switch, and can also be turned off all together by the pilot in the AFCS menu, any time in flight.

If the pilot were to have configured and armed ESP without knowledge of how the system works, and some kind of malfunction occured, hopefully the servos were installed correctly and wired through a 5A circuit breaker, which they could use to remove power from the servos.

Thanks,

Justin
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  #77  
Old 04-11-2022, 11:15 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
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Additionally, the AP servos clutches can always be overpowered relatively easily by the pilot, at no time should you ever lose control of the aircraft due to the AP, it's not that powerful.
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  #78  
Old 07-02-2022, 06:55 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Location: Dayton, NV
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Finally!! Our IGRF has been updated…….

I have no idea what the IGRF is, but I am pretty sure it is a mapping reference frame buried deep within the G3X software (I’m pretty sure, becasue a Garmin friend told me so….). For about the past six months (maybe a year?) we’ve been getting messages on both our original non-touch G3X airplane and our G3X Touch airplane that ”the IGRF is out of date”.

(You have to understand that both airplanes have essentially single-digit G3X system serial numbers - so they’ve been in use a LONG time….)

It was suggested by our Garmin friend that a software update would necesarily carry an IGRF that was current to the latest geological epoc, so I updated both systems to the latest software while it was too windy to fly this afternoon…and he was right! So if you get that annoying message, a software update is in order….

Paul
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