Pet peeve/suggestion for selling an RV

(Mods, if this is the wrong section, feel free to remove or delete this post.)

As a recent buyer of a flying RV I think I am qualified to give an opinion about what prospective buyers would like to see in a listing. I have looked at MANY classified ads to date and continue to look so I can maintain my feel for the market. The buyer wants to see the type of engine, prop, hours, certification date, equipment list, price and most importantly PICTURES!! I often see links to websites posted but it would be much easier on the buyer to INSERT the image in the post. Selling AND buying an aircraft is WORK. If you can't take the time to make a decent listing then how will the rest of the sale go?? Sort of makes me question the quality of work also.

For those that don't know how to insert images it is quite easy. Go to the site where the picture is hosted, right click the picture and then copy the information under PROPERTIES. Then PASTE that same information into the box that appears when you click the INSERT IMAGE icon on the tool bar that appears as you make a new post. Repeat this process for every pictures you want to post.

I think a complete listing will reduce the number of so-called "tire kickers" and increase your chance of a successful sale.

End of rant, over.

Reminds me of when I called on a truck the other day being sold locally on Craigslist with ONE photo and asked the seller if he could take some additional photos and email them to me. He quickly answered... "Sure, what area's would you like me to take photos of?" I kinda of chuckled and said "Take 10 photos of the areas/items that YOU would like to see if YOU were looking at buying a truck that only posted 1 photo". He was silent for a second, and then it was as if a light bulb turn on in his head, I heard "Ohhhhhh...... ok. I can do that".

The best is when there is no price listed, and when you call to inquire they mention a price waaaaaaay too high, and then are insulted/annoyed when you tell them its above your budget.

With regard to sellers posting a link in lieu of posting photos in their ad, perhaps you need to give the benefit of doubt.
There are many sellers that go to great lengths to produce a web site or set up photo sharing for the sale of their aircraft, inclusive of photos, spec sheets, and and in many cases, build logs.
If it is really so exhausting for a prospective buyer to move the mouse and click a link, perhaps RV flying is not for them!
Just saying......

Good point Mark yet I just clicked on one provided link to see useful pics but no info on the equipment/options.

I am not that good that I can look at all avionics in a small picture and know what they are.

Ron Lee said:

Good point Mark yet I just clicked on one provided link to see useful pics but no info on the equipment/options.

I am not that good that I can look at all avionics in a small picture and know what they are.

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Yep...I hear ya', Ron. That is probably what the original poster was irritated with.

I would suggest taking 100 pictures of the plane inside and out with panels on and off and uploading them to Picasa or some other free picture hosting site. Then post 1 or 2 images in the thread with the URL to the album for the rest. Below the pics list a somewhat standardized form showing relevant info (age, TT, HP, prop, etc....).

People today expect to virtually tour the product before proceeding. Look at the car sites, for example (this listing on Carmax.com as a data point - lots of pictures and details)

Hey, that reminds me....we need to come up with a standardized 'for sale' form showing relevant info.

tkatc said:

(Mods, if this is the wrong section, feel free to remove or delete this post.)

For those that don't know how to insert images it is quite easy. Go to the site where the picture is hosted, right click the picture and then copy the information under PROPERTIES. Then PASTE that same information into the box that appears when you click the INSERT IMAGE icon on the tool bar that appears as you make a new post. Repeat this process for every pictures you want to post.

I think a complete listing will reduce the number of so-called "tire kickers" and increase your chance of a successful sale.

End of rant, over.

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I agree that pictures are important, but posting a lot of pictures in a thread here would be kind of sucky. It is much more efficient to maybe post one or two of your best pics here and provide a link to your online photo albums (Picasa, Photobucket, SmugMug, etc...). I personally want to see hundreds of hi-res pics before committing to a pre-buy or traveling to see an airplane. A forum is not the best place to go for perusing those pics.

My pet peeve is guys who email you a 65kb cell phone pic of the upper left edge of a rudder pedal and maybe a grainy picture of their cat (or kid) sitting in the cockpit. They almost always offer these up with the excuse, "I'm not a computer person."

Listen to potential buyer!

Anyone considering selling their RV should take tkatc's advise.
It's not often that you get inside information directly from a potential buyer.
That is, if you really want to sell your RV.
DR's post is exactly how I did it and I sold my RV in less than 4 weeks.

My pet peeve is when people misspell "pet peeve."

Every once and a while, you'll get someone that perhaps lost there medical and therefore their passion for flying. These people came to the world before computers and post just a short classified and no photos. They could be well to do and just want to move their aircraft, and therefore are willing to let it go for a steal.
Now it's up to the potential buyer to do the work, if they are not willing to put in the extra effort, maybe flying is not for them.
My point is it depends on where you are coming from. If you want top dollar and wish to move your product quickly, then by all means do as discribed. If you are looking for a deal of a lifetime, you will have to search long and hard.I don't disagree with the recommendations, I just don't think it's fair to put some one down for doing business as we were accustume, not that long ago.
Just my point of view.
Ron

What they said and...

The one phrase I hate is "Too many goodies to list" Hellloooo!!! You are trying to sell something up to $100K in value... Please take the time to make it easy for buyers to get a feel for what you are selling. More info and pix is always better.. Take the time for instance to get good pix of the engine bay, interior, panel...

Interesting

How about a rant for a rant....

I'm not sure that I understand the point of the post... you bought an RV but choose to post up and complain that sellers don't post enough info to make it more convenient for everyone looking. Just like the phrase "buyer beware" the seller chooses how to market their offering with as much or as little info as possible. There is a reason to filter the initial info as many question your build intent, "well why did you do that? or other non value added posts. How many times do we log on and see someone offering their expert advice of how the plane is priced too high or other magical suggestion? If it doesn't sell then shame on the seller. If you are truly interested then ask if it is not there. why wouldn't you at least make the effort if you are truly interested in finding out? Do you want a detailed listing so amazing that a buy now pay-pal style button is available too? Perhaps the plane is delivered to your door? Maybe it washes itself and has a perpetual fuel supply... cool.

I've sold an RV on Barn stormers and it went quickly with the minimal info required for their basic posting. Intelligent inquires were followed with additional deeper info.

Many posts anymore seem to be whining and crying over it's "too hard, too soft, not enough, too much, Van's doesn't do this or that and my plane won't build itself yet I want credit for the 51%!"

We are indeed our own worse enemies sometimes.... worse than a bunch of old constipated ________________ (fill in the blank)

Gonzo24 said:

snip...I'm not sure that I understand the point of the post... ...snip

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I think the point (or at least the point of mine) was to cut down on the number of phone calls that will not be interested when they find out more info. If they can see/read it up front, the calls that do come will be much more qualified.

DeltaRomeo said:

I think the point (or at least the point of mine) was to cut down on the number of phone calls that will not be interested when they find out more info. If they can see/read it up front, the calls that do come will be much more qualified.

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Doug,
Unfortunately, this is not always the case.
A few years ago, I was involved in helping an old friend who was terminally ill sell his RV. Initially, I (we) were guilty of not having enough info out there for the price he was asking. However, within a month or so, I had put together a detailed spec sheet of equipment, photos, FAQ's, etc.
I was still swamped with calls from guys who have nothing better to do than sit and call to ask questions about the most obscure stuff, and make unreasonable requests.
I knew that the builder/seller was asking too much money, but I also knew that if someone showed up to actually INSPECT the plane, and make a fair offer, that it would be theirs, and I tried in my best "wink/nudge" to convey that.
In the age of the internet, there are many guys who want you to do a virtual pre-buy for them, when they have no intention of buying.

My two cents...

Having recently bought, I have what I think is an experienced perspective to add.

First, I agree that pics and lists etc. are helpful to sell an airplane. As a buyer, I won't rant about it though, since it is a disservice to the seller more than the buyer to not feature the plane with details and pictures. The seller can choose however he/she wants to market their plane.

The hard part is often that the seller and buyer are not close together. To go see a plane can be expensive, in time and money. Pics and details help narrow the field.

As a buyer, I did a lot of homework. I ended up buying a plane that was on the market for several months, and I don't think it would have been if the ad and pics were more thorough / flashy. Another that I had earlier put in an offer on was sold to a higher bidder within a week of posting. It had a comprehensive ad with lots of good pics.

So... I kinda like it when sellers don't try too hard. I can get better deals when buying, and when I decide to sell, I can also put in the effort to make my plane stand out in a crowd. If value is less important and you just want to find the pretty plane with all the gadgets you want, I could see it being frustrating thinking it is out there but the sellers just aren't communicating. If you want value, however, the little bit of extra work can help you uncover a treasure that others overlook.

My pet peeve, on the other hand, are sellers who think that the market is established based on what their cost was. I'm sorry, but just because you overpaid doesn't mean I have to, when there are other equivalent options priced in accordance with the market out there.

Mike, I can easily put your pics on my ISP website then provide the exact text you need to just cut and paste in your ad.

If you can keep them under 100K and just one or two per email since I am on dialup.

ronlee at pcisys dot net

The RV-6 I ended up driving for two days to see, spending two nights in a hotel, was advertised here with a two-line ad and no photos. The Barnstormer's ad for it only had two or three photos too, and only a brief description. I credit those two things with making it difficult for any fellow RV-hunters at the time to figure out how great a deal it was. Personally, i'm *very* happy with the way it was advertised. I did the legwork to find out the details I wanted to know, and it appears nobody else wanted to. Yay for me!

In contrast, the two RV-4's I looked at before picking the -6 were both *well* advertised, with lots of photos, lots of details, and (according to the person who I bought the -6 from) on the day people came to see one of them there were so many people you couldn't even see the airplane (one of the -4's was based at the same airport as my -6). I'm sure that was lucrative for the seller, as having multiple buyers always drives up the price. But i'm sure it was extra stress too, with a dozen people pawing your pretty airplane. Not all sellers want to go through that.

So the point of the thread is ...................>

N395V said:

So the point of the thread is ...................>

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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see comment here from buyers who were glad their RV's were poorly advertised so they got a better price. This confirms that nondescript ads are great for buyers...

Sellers, not so much...

I think the point is made...

I think the idea of having some standard information is a good one. My "other" hobby is building hot rods and on the Cobra forums, they have done just this. There's a guy who runs a website that people use to list their Cobra for sale. They guy tells you what pictures to take from what angles, and sturctures each add so all the same information is listed for each car. It makes it very easy to comparison shop.

However, I can see where it's not that beneficial for a high-end seller to distinguish his car from the rest.

I've sold five experimentals over the years and I've always felt more information was better. I always put together a data sheet with every option on the airplane that I thought was worth mentioning. In fact during the build, I would keep track of these items for later use if needed. It seemed to get rid of most of the tire kickers anyway. I also stayed away from demo rides until they put a refundable deposit down.

I also love the ads with the words "Price FIRM". Unless the price is reasonable, I usually don't bother.

After watching countless sellers get insulted by tire kickers on here, when I decide to sell, I will be using TAp or Barnstormers. If a potential buyer wants to tell me what I did wrong in person that is just fine, but I don't feel like I need to take that abuse publicly. Real buyers will do their homework, regardless of the ad.

How about empty weight?

I rarely see empty weight listed in the add. I have a theory that the higher the price of the machine, the heavier it is. Some of the really high dollar machines have redundant systems, all of the options, lots of customization, fancy interiors, and usually really nice expensive paint, all adding to the weight.
Knowing what I know now, weight would be the single most important data point after I sorted out the minimum features I needed for whatever mission I wanted for that machine.

Kick the tires

I paid my EAA friend for his time to check out the seller over the phone. He knew the questions to ask that I didn't. After an hour and a half he put the blessing on the deal. A plane ticket and two nights in a motel are a small investment for a deal in these price ranges.