Michael Burbidge
Well Known Member
How does one go about finding a good midtime engine?
Michael Burbidge
Sammamish, WA
Dreaming RV-9A
Michael Burbidge
Sammamish, WA
Dreaming RV-9A
Van's Air Force
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Where to get used engines?
- Thread starter Michael Burbidge
- Start date
jbDC9
Well Known Member
Wentworth Aircraft, looks like they have a bunch of new arrival O-320/360s from wind damaged aircraft, no prop strike.
http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm
White Industries; quite a few O-320s listed and 1 beat up O-360-A1D; most have prop strikes; ouch.
http://www.whiteindustries.com/
http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm
White Industries; quite a few O-320s listed and 1 beat up O-360-A1D; most have prop strikes; ouch.
http://www.whiteindustries.com/
WheatRidgeRV
I'm New Here
Dick Waters
I have been talking to Dick about an engine and he wants his money up front. I would like to know what kind of experiences others have had dealing with him. I would just like to have some kind of comfort level before I take the big plunge and send him a check.
I have been talking to Dick about an engine and he wants his money up front. I would like to know what kind of experiences others have had dealing with him. I would just like to have some kind of comfort level before I take the big plunge and send him a check.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Bobby's Planes and Parts. Near Dallas, Tx.
You should be able to find a phone number in the RV-list Yeller Pages.
You should be able to find a phone number in the RV-list Yeller Pages.
photoadjuster
Member
Bobby's Planes and Parts
Bobby is located close to Mineral Wells, Texas.
He is a very honorable man.
Mike Stephenson
Lubbock, TX
Bobby is located close to Mineral Wells, Texas.
He is a very honorable man.
Mike Stephenson
Lubbock, TX
Since you are in Washington, you might want to look up the salvage operation near Spokane.
Here are some things to consider on a used engine.
As far as salvage yards are concerned, the price is governed by the certificated aircraft market. So a buyer for a low time engine for a Cherokee is going to look at the roughly $35,000 cost of a new engine and will think $25,000 for a 100 SMOH engine is a bargain. But you can get a new engine for that $ from Aerosport and others with lots of extras.
Be sure to find out what the salvage yard will guarantee.
For private parties, you want to buy from someone near home. You want to see the engine, preferably with a mechanic you know and trust. You want to pull plugs, look in the cylinders, etc. You want to take it home yourself, rather than trusting someone you don't know to ship you a $15,000 engine to be sure you get the engine you saw.
If you buy a core & have it overhauled, you have a risk that expensive parts like the crank might not be usable. The seller needs to guarantee the crank & case, but that guarantee is only as good as the seller's word. What if he is in Texas & you are in Washington? How are you going to go after him to enforce the contract? And speaking of Texas, note that they just had a hurricane down there. Lots of wet.
Aerosport guestimated $13,000 to overhaul a first runout engine for me. The seller wanted about $6,000. So for $19K I would have a freshly overhauled engine, while Aerosport could sell me a basic new one for $21K.
I am not saying you can't get a used engine for a decent price, but you will have to be patient and realistic. I got a 50 SMOH, 250TT engine for $13,500 and have heard of others that might have worked out. The guy in Spokane offered me a freshly overhauled engine for $11K, it had had prop strikes twice and been overhauled both times. I passed on it. There was a guy in Utah with one for about the same price. I know guys who have gotten good deals with used engines (I hope I did!) and some who got shafted, so be careful.
Check Barnstormers.com
Watch Trade a plane--you can check their ads online
Watch General Aviation News--you can check their ads online
Check EAA chapter online newsletters.
And if you are really still at the dreaming stage, you have lots of time, so be patient.
Here are some things to consider on a used engine.
As far as salvage yards are concerned, the price is governed by the certificated aircraft market. So a buyer for a low time engine for a Cherokee is going to look at the roughly $35,000 cost of a new engine and will think $25,000 for a 100 SMOH engine is a bargain. But you can get a new engine for that $ from Aerosport and others with lots of extras.
Be sure to find out what the salvage yard will guarantee.
For private parties, you want to buy from someone near home. You want to see the engine, preferably with a mechanic you know and trust. You want to pull plugs, look in the cylinders, etc. You want to take it home yourself, rather than trusting someone you don't know to ship you a $15,000 engine to be sure you get the engine you saw.
If you buy a core & have it overhauled, you have a risk that expensive parts like the crank might not be usable. The seller needs to guarantee the crank & case, but that guarantee is only as good as the seller's word. What if he is in Texas & you are in Washington? How are you going to go after him to enforce the contract? And speaking of Texas, note that they just had a hurricane down there. Lots of wet.
Aerosport guestimated $13,000 to overhaul a first runout engine for me. The seller wanted about $6,000. So for $19K I would have a freshly overhauled engine, while Aerosport could sell me a basic new one for $21K.
I am not saying you can't get a used engine for a decent price, but you will have to be patient and realistic. I got a 50 SMOH, 250TT engine for $13,500 and have heard of others that might have worked out. The guy in Spokane offered me a freshly overhauled engine for $11K, it had had prop strikes twice and been overhauled both times. I passed on it. There was a guy in Utah with one for about the same price. I know guys who have gotten good deals with used engines (I hope I did!) and some who got shafted, so be careful.
Check Barnstormers.com
Watch Trade a plane--you can check their ads online
Watch General Aviation News--you can check their ads online
Check EAA chapter online newsletters.
And if you are really still at the dreaming stage, you have lots of time, so be patient.
Fearless
Well Known Member
Dick didn't help me on a set of cracked crankcases
I bought a core O-320 160 hp wide deck from Dick. When I shipped the crankcases out to be serviced they were rejected because of cracks. I called Dick to see if he would replace the cases but he said he didn't have a set for a 160 hp wide deck. To be fair it was at about two years since I bought the core to when I sent the cases out to be serviced. I just recently purchased a set of replacements crankcases from Wentworth.
I bought a core O-320 160 hp wide deck from Dick. When I shipped the crankcases out to be serviced they were rejected because of cracks. I called Dick to see if he would replace the cases but he said he didn't have a set for a 160 hp wide deck. To be fair it was at about two years since I bought the core to when I sent the cases out to be serviced. I just recently purchased a set of replacements crankcases from Wentworth.
Brantel
Well Known Member
I know this is a tough thing to do because I just went thru it.
Whatever you do, keep in mind you can buy a brand new assemble it yourself kit engine (O-360 carbed) for 17,500 complete with carb and mags. This makes it a tough decision to purchased used unless you find a deal! Like others have said, be carefull about things like cases, cranks and cylinders.
New crank = ~ $5,000
Yellow tagged crank = ~ $3,000 these went way up due to the SB505 killing many of them
Cylinders = ~ $1000 each
Carb = at least $800 for a reman expect $1500 if you have no core
Mags/harnesses = at least $1300 expect $1600 if you have no cores
Case = ? don't know but I bet it is high! Anyone know the price for a yellow tagged case?
It would be very easy to end up with more in a used engine than a new kit motor or a new assembled one.
Whatever you do, keep in mind you can buy a brand new assemble it yourself kit engine (O-360 carbed) for 17,500 complete with carb and mags. This makes it a tough decision to purchased used unless you find a deal! Like others have said, be carefull about things like cases, cranks and cylinders.
New crank = ~ $5,000
Yellow tagged crank = ~ $3,000 these went way up due to the SB505 killing many of them
Cylinders = ~ $1000 each
Carb = at least $800 for a reman expect $1500 if you have no core
Mags/harnesses = at least $1300 expect $1600 if you have no cores
Case = ? don't know but I bet it is high! Anyone know the price for a yellow tagged case?
It would be very easy to end up with more in a used engine than a new kit motor or a new assembled one.
Brian Vickers
Well Known Member
I couldn't find a mid time engine around Puget Sound
Michael,
I also live in the northwest and spent nearly one year looking for a "bolt on and go" used engine. The Aircraft Cost Estimator on Van?s website has ?Used mid-time Lycoming? as an option. Sounded good to me!!! I was not successful finding a suitable unit within a 300 mile radius that I could drive to and inspect in person. I?m sure they exist but one never appeared while I was looking. I then decided to purchase a core and DIY overhaul. The core I purchased had only 600 documented hours since new, but it had been sitting for 13 years. The diseased owner had disassembled it and slopped packing grease on everything, except the inside of the crank barrel. The crank failed inspection from corrosion pits inside the barrel. I ended up purchasing a new OEM Lycoming unit for $3,838.99 (kit, includes bearings and nose seal). The former owner also damaged (scratched) the mating surfaces on the case. Very slight scratches, but ouch!! This was another bargain killer (Divco invoice). Shipping everything out and back to the over-haul shops was also expensive. My cost is now about equal to a brand spanking new kit engine with zero hours on everything. I am using the standard cast cylinders (overhauled) that came with my core but I wish they were new with nickel plated barrels.
The overhaul and engine assembly process has been one of the highlights of my project. If I did it all over again I?d ?bite the bullet? and write one big check for the new engine kit.
Michael,
I also live in the northwest and spent nearly one year looking for a "bolt on and go" used engine. The Aircraft Cost Estimator on Van?s website has ?Used mid-time Lycoming? as an option. Sounded good to me!!! I was not successful finding a suitable unit within a 300 mile radius that I could drive to and inspect in person. I?m sure they exist but one never appeared while I was looking. I then decided to purchase a core and DIY overhaul. The core I purchased had only 600 documented hours since new, but it had been sitting for 13 years. The diseased owner had disassembled it and slopped packing grease on everything, except the inside of the crank barrel. The crank failed inspection from corrosion pits inside the barrel. I ended up purchasing a new OEM Lycoming unit for $3,838.99 (kit, includes bearings and nose seal). The former owner also damaged (scratched) the mating surfaces on the case. Very slight scratches, but ouch!! This was another bargain killer (Divco invoice). Shipping everything out and back to the over-haul shops was also expensive. My cost is now about equal to a brand spanking new kit engine with zero hours on everything. I am using the standard cast cylinders (overhauled) that came with my core but I wish they were new with nickel plated barrels.
The overhaul and engine assembly process has been one of the highlights of my project. If I did it all over again I?d ?bite the bullet? and write one big check for the new engine kit.
Brantel
Well Known Member
Just a note for everyone that once thought that if you failed an SB505 inspection the crank was done....Not in all cases now!
They are repairing some of these at this point. Seems lots of these cranks have enough meat in them to clean out the pits.
I just had mine repaired and recertified by Aircraft Specialties. Looks like a million bucks now!
az_gila
Well Known Member
If it came off...
...a certified O-320 core, then the crank is usually still good for a certified 150 HP O-320 - the SB505 only applies to the 160 HP version.
It should still have a good resale value....
...a certified O-320 core, then the crank is usually still good for a certified 150 HP O-320 - the SB505 only applies to the 160 HP version.
It should still have a good resale value....
Brantel
Well Known Member
Not sure I follow you here since this SB sez all O-320 engines are to be inspected and so does the AD that goes with this. Don't see the exemption based on HP???? Did rev A have the exemption? Seems Rev B does not. Must be why the price of cranks doubled over the past couple years.
No big deal for experimentals, most have dismissed this SB as being worthless anyway.
No big deal for experimentals, most have dismissed this SB as being worthless anyway.
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az_gila
Well Known Member
A late update, but the AD is only for 160 HP O-320 engines on certified aircraft. 150 HP O-320s are not included.
98-02-08 Textron Lycoming: Amendment 39-10291. Docket 94-ANE-44.
Applicability: Textron Lycoming 320 series limited to 160 horsepower, and 360 series, four cylinder reciprocating engines with fixed pitch propellers; except for the following installed in helicopters or with solid crankshafts: HO-360 series, HIO-360 series, LHIO-360 series, VO-360 series, and IVO-360 series, and Models O-320-B2C, O-360-J2A, AEIO-360-B4A, O-360-A4A, -A4G, -A4J, -A4K, -A4M, and -C4F. In addition, engines with crankshafts containing "PID" stamped on the outside diameter of the propeller flange are exempt from the inspection requirements of this AD.
Above is straight off the FAA Current AD list.
It will be binding on homebuilts if you are going for a 25 hr test period based on the fact your engine is certified.
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David-aviator
Well Known Member
Well, I am not the only one slightly out date on new engine prices. Here is the current basic price schedule at Aerosport.
New Aero Sport Power 0-360 Series Engines:
with ECI Components $ 24,700.00 US
with Superior Roller Lifters $ 25,200.00 US
with Lycoming Roller Tappet Technology $ 26,200.00 US
At Lycoming the basic experimental YO-360-A4M is $28,750.
Brantel, where can you buy an 0360 kit for $17,500 today?
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
David,
Brantel's price quote is from his message dated 9-16-2008 (check the date stamp on his original message). I'm sure prices have changed since then.
pazmanyflyer
Well Known Member
David,
Brantel's price quote is from his message dated 9-16-2008 (check the date stamp on his original message). I'm sure prices have changed since then.
As well as suppliers since that time. Remember that AERO no longer supplies ECI kit engines and I believe that is where several bought them from. Other suppliers won't sell anything but a complete BUILT engine (I've asked). I'm sure they are out there (somewhere) but I haven't research it enough. Not that time for me yet so YMMV.
core engine
Air Plains in Wellington KS and Penn Yan Aero in Penn Yan NY both do 0 360 conversions on Cessna 172's. These and other conversion shops are the best source of mid time, no prop strike engines. The salvage companys would be a distant second choice for me.
Air Plains in Wellington KS and Penn Yan Aero in Penn Yan NY both do 0 360 conversions on Cessna 172's. These and other conversion shops are the best source of mid time, no prop strike engines. The salvage companys would be a distant second choice for me.
used engines
My suggestion would be if you are going to buy a used engine get a guarantee on the case and crank in writing. Most salvage yards will not guarantee both and that will affect the price of the engine. And how much you have in it when your finished.
On the cranks and SB505 you also need to look at SB530 which applies to 235-360 engines. It says before you apply the urethradond in the front tunnel you have to remove all the pits which makes the SB505 apply to the lower HP engines. At least that is the way I read it. This also only applies to fixed pitch so if you plan on constant speed then you could be ok.
Jesse
My suggestion would be if you are going to buy a used engine get a guarantee on the case and crank in writing. Most salvage yards will not guarantee both and that will affect the price of the engine. And how much you have in it when your finished.
On the cranks and SB505 you also need to look at SB530 which applies to 235-360 engines. It says before you apply the urethradond in the front tunnel you have to remove all the pits which makes the SB505 apply to the lower HP engines. At least that is the way I read it. This also only applies to fixed pitch so if you plan on constant speed then you could be ok.
Jesse
