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Old 12-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Mark12A's Avatar
Mark12A Mark12A is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 89
Default Data Backup...

After very nearly losing substantial research in a program on which I'm working (not related to airplanes directly, but paying for one that does ) I have become religious about online backups. Sure, I burn stuff onto CDs and DVDs and flash drives, but they get scratched or lost. There are a couple that you pay for (Carbonite and MozyPro) and a few that you don't (?) like Skydrive. Sharepoint works if you've got access to it. One of the lads from across the pond referred to it as "belt and braces" approach; this is that sort of thing for data security.

If the idea of data backup is your friend, then a system that will back up your data automatically is the friend that will help you dispose of bodies.
Jay Staub
Lt. Col., USAF, Ret.
N6565S Reserved
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:03 PM
BSwayze's Avatar
BSwayze BSwayze is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Molalla, Oregon
Posts: 955

Originally Posted by Stalldog View Post
Thanks to everyone for the great ideas.


Now, about those tools . . . .

Hey Jim,

Welcome to the worlds greatest addiction! Don't sweat the tools too much. Over the time I've been building, I've purchased from most all the major vendors. They're all good people, so it's hard to go wrong. Just get the basics and get started. If you're like most of us, you'll be adding tools to your collection as you go along. You don't need them all at once. If you're patient and want to save some money, I bought some of mine on eBay used, at a very good price.
Bruce Swayze
RV-7A Standard Build
First flight November 3, 2019!

Last edited by BSwayze : 12-13-2011 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:54 PM
Stalldog Stalldog is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 337

Wow, thanks again fellas for all the good ideas. Didn't expect that much response!

I'll do a little more prep tonight, but spend more time on getting some tools ordered. And, you're right, don't need them all right now ( although the engineer in me -- the little guy with horns sitting on my shoulder -- keeps whispering into my ear and says to get it all right now -- LOL)! Need to get some in BEFORE being off a week at Christmas. Heck, for now probably a scotchbrite pad would do!!!!
Lenexa, KS


Last edited by Stalldog : 12-13-2011 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:01 PM
pilot2512 pilot2512 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 482

Something I learned about buying tools...Save buying a tool you will not need right away. A lot of tool suppliers will give you free shipping if you spend a certain amount. You may need just 1 tool and not have enough to make free shipping, so that extra tool just may give you that extra boost you need. For example, I got just enough clecos for the emp kit and when I need to, I added 100 clecos to an order to get the free shipping.
Also don't rule out places like ebay and amazon for stuff. Best price I found on scotchbrite pads was amazon.
Empennage complete.
Wings complete.
Fuselage in progress
Wiring in progress
2020 Donation made!
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:17 PM
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dhall_polo dhall_polo is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 610
Default tools

Originally Posted by Stalldog View Post
All I've got to do now is figure out what tools to order
I ordered most of my tools for the empennage from cleaveland. I love the quality of sioux drills and "main squeeze" squeezer.

Here's some snaps I took of tools from my shop in the early build days.
hint: click the show-info button to see descriptions with the pics.
tools slideshow
Don Hall
N517DG - RV7 - Flying!
Ticked Van's Hobbes meter at #6110, 3/7/09
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:09 PM
Stalldog Stalldog is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 337

Looks like I'm getting started with Isham. Avery, Cleaveland, Brown, etc. all look good, but I like the Isham kit and components, plus Isham's pretty close to me.

Someone hold onto my feet, I'm goin' in!
Lenexa, KS

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Old 12-13-2011, 07:24 PM
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Sparky Sparky is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Perham, MN
Posts: 350
Default Regarding Tools...

You will get a lot of differing opinions, but here's mine:

#1 - Tools are VERY ADDICTIVE!

#2 - You can NEVER have enough tools!

In the beginning (2006) I ordered the RV Builders Tool Kit from Avery Tools, but I substituted the DRDT-2 hand dimpling tool for the C-frame dimpler and Mallet (best decision I made - much quieter and more precise IMHO). I was VERY satisfied with Avery's service/price/quality and have ordered many items from them along the way. In my opinion, I should have deleted the hand squeezer, because I NEVER USED it (reason below). I should also have deleted the 90 degree angle drill adapter, because I found a great deal on a Sioux pneumatic 90 degree drill later (check ebay), which is much more useful IMHO, but I did use all of the 90 degree drill bits. Otherwise, I used EVERY other tool provided in the kit, and most were indispensable on some part of the build or another.

Shortly after starting the project, I found a pneumatic C squeezer with a 3" yoke and adjustable set holder and quick change yoke pins on sale (don't remember where, ISHAM I think, but it was a good deal). This was the second best decision I ever made. I ended up adding a 4" no-hole yoke (indispensable) and a longeron yoke (also indispensable) IMHO. I couldn't imagine using a hand squeezer for ALL the dimples and rivets I set with the pneumatic squeezer (although I'm sure many, many builders did them all with hand squeezers - more power to them!).

I obtained very good quality dimple dies from both Avery and Cleaveland. (hints: the narrow 3/32" female die is very useful for dimpling plate nuts, and Cleaveland's "tank skin dimple dies" work very well for dimpling the fuel tank skins)

A bench top band saw has been VERY useful, as well as a bench top drill press. Mine are made by Delta, but many as good or better are available.

Always use good quality cobalt drill bits (like those available at Avery Tools, Cleaveland, Brown Tool, etc.) never use "cheap" drill bits.

I have amassed many, many, many more tools, clecos, etc. along the way, many were simply "nice to haves," but the above examples were some of my most memorable. You don't have to go as "overboard" as I have to obtain good results. I just like tools

All the tool suppliers mentioned above advertise on VAF, and I would not hessitate to endorse any one of them.

Edit: Also, I highly recommend obtaining #6 and #8 plate nut drill jigs (Avery has them), expensive, but well worth it after drilling many, many plate nuts.
Paul Winkels
RV7 Standard Build - First flight 4/16/2016 - Now Flying!

Last edited by Sparky : 12-13-2011 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:31 PM
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N355DW N355DW is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
Posts: 261
Default Just started myself

I just started my 7. Got my tools from Cleaveland, very friendly and helpful people all, I recommend them highly.

I had many of the tools already from a previous biplane project, including a rivet squeezer from another company. After reading the description of the "Main Squeeze" and knowing how many rivets (even mine being a quick build) lay ahead of me, I ordered it. Very glad I did, it works MUCH better and easier than my old squeezer. If I had a slow build I would probably get a pneumatic squeezer, but I highly recommend this one if you get a hand squeezer.

Have fun!
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Old 12-14-2011, 10:40 AM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,991
Default Tool recommendations

Isham is a good start. There are going to be some things you will just have to get from other vendors, but I have been happy with my Isham tools and the service they provide. I would say that a pneumatic squeezer is an absolute godsend! It's bulky and awkward at first, but once you get used to it, it's a wonderful tool. I love the following tools (all from Cleaveland): Debur bit (used with low speed electric drill), tight spot dimple dies (at least a 3/32), tight spot table dimpling tool and their edge rolling tool. Other tools I would recommend: 90 deg angle drill, pneumatic cleco runner (if building RV10), and a pneumatic rivet puller (harbor freight jobber with replacement warranty). Enjoy!
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301
VAF Dues Current
RV-10 - Working on engine / prop installation
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:49 PM
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cka357 cka357 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Richmond, KY
Posts: 57
Thumbs up Kit Log Pro 2.0


Today I downloaded Kit Log Pro 2.0 and paid the $50. I thought about writing my own application or Excel sheet but this software seems to do everything I could think of.

I did have a few problems with getting the updates to work as well as getting the help files to pop up. I sent a quick email to Kitlog support and had an answer to all of my questions in just a few hours. Two thumbs up to Matt at Kit Log Pro for the great support. Oh the web interface works like a champ as well.

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