VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > Safety
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-04-2016, 10:54 PM
Mark C. Mark C. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Schaumburg
Posts: 119
Default

If I may ask and as long as O2 is the topic does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration. Thanks, Mark C.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-04-2016, 11:26 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 1,698
Default

Hard to say as there are many variables. While not required legally, you may find that you benefit from it (feel better) considering the actual density altitude, your age and general health, duration of flight, night/day etc.

You may want to get yourself one of those cheap oxygen saturation measuring tools and see where it reads for you under normal conditions on the ground, then in the air at altitude and then again with a borrowed O2 system to compare.

Just my thoughts. No expert here!

Bevan
__________________
RV7A Flying since 2015
O-360-A1F6 (parallel valve) 180HP
Dual P-mags
Precision F.I. with AP purge valve
Vinyl Wrapped Exterior
Grand Rapids EFIS
Located in western Canada
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-05-2016, 01:41 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Hard to say as there are many variables. While not required legally, you may find that you benefit from it (feel better) considering the actual density altitude, your age and general health, duration of flight, night/day etc.


Bevan
The physiology of oxygen in the body (having to cross membranes) is such that it depends on (partial) pressure, not density. e.g., pressure altitude, not density altitude, is what is important.

Other question: When you exhale, the first part fills a small 'bag' inside the mustache; the remainder is exhausted to the air. When you next breathe in, you use the air from the bag first. Since this air was in the nose and throat, it is 'pure', e.g., uncontaminated by CO2 and enriched by O2.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-05-2016, 06:51 AM
bret's Avatar
bret bret is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
Default

One time.....at band camp.....I crossed the Sierras, at night. 11,500 without O2. never again. although I don't hold an IFR ticket, I'm glad I had 30 hrs and 10 IMC training towards one, that night. It was quite disturbing watching the horizon disappear, and (appear) to get darker with altitude and maybe hypoxia, I was monitoring and was at 92% O2 will be in my plane.
__________________
7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-05-2016, 08:34 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark C. View Post
does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration.
It's a personal choice and a safety choice. Depending on your health and actual flying conditions it may or may not be right for you.

If you have not read or refreshed yourself with IMSAFE, it's a good place to start.

Another thing to consider is "planning to fly at 8,000ft" vs "where you actually fly". I am reminded of a thread on this subject from a good friend: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...57&postcount=1

At the very least, it's a good idea to have a pulse oximeter ...

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:21 AM
N395V's Avatar
N395V N395V is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mendon South Carolina
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
At the very least, it's a good idea to have a pulse oximeter ...
I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?
__________________



Milt Concannon
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:47 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N395V View Post
How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying? What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower? Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?
There a lots of applicable information on the internet (as long as you use reputable sources). Rather than duplicate that information here and risk it getting stale, you can do an internet search for "blood oxygen saturation level" and read what has been written by the Mayo Clinic, WebMD, etc.

tl;dr - "Normal pulse oximeter readings usually range from 95 to 100 percent. Values under 90 percent are considered low."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:47 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark C. View Post
If I may ask and as long as O2 is the topic does it make sense to get an O2 system if I plan taking trips at 8,000 MSL ? Up to 6 hours duration. Thanks, Mark C.
I always use O2 at 8000' and up. I found that even as low as 8000' I was not as tired after the flight when on O2.

Just finished a west trip out of Virginia to Phoenix and Fort Collins with a lot of time at 14,000'. Two people and I used half of the Mountain High AL-415 bottle.

At the Airpark we have a shared O2 charging station. Three of use each provide a $40 O2 bottle from the local gas shop every other year or so. The three bottles are in a daisy chain so we always charge from the lowest bottle first. This is about as close to free air as you will get.

Carl
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-05-2016, 10:51 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N395V View Post
I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?
I agree with others comments and you are on the right track mentioning health issues and age as considerations.

This is a complex topic - the answer is that it varies from person to person. For most people in good health an oxygen saturation of 90-91% or more is adequate. The ability of the blood to deliver oxygen to tissue falls off very rapidly below this saturation level, due to the complex relationship of oxygen concentration (pO2) to saturation (% as measured by saturation monitor). Depending on individual factors, saturation can fall rapidly below the 90% range as ambient oxygen levels drop further (i.e. higher altitude). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen...ociation_curve).

Note that the curve is affected by many individual factors and that saturation can be much lower at a given pO2 if someone has lung disease or other diseases that impact the ability of the body to use oxygen.

If you can get access to an altitude chamber it's helpful to be able to recognize your own symptoms of hypoxia. I'm in good health but my saturation drops below 90% around 9000 feet, so I put on O2 above that altitude. Way below the 12,500 rule...
__________________
Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-12iS in progress as of October 2020
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-05-2016, 11:16 AM
Low Pass's Avatar
Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N395V View Post
I have asked this question before and have yet to get an answer.

How do you use a pulse oximeter when flying.

What reading tells you that everything is OK and what reading says use O2 or go lower?

Are the same numbers good for everyone or are they different if you are a smoker, are older, younger, fat, thin, have heart or lung disease or anemia?

If the numbers are not the same for everyone then what are the numbers for the above categories?

Is there a table or document somewhere that tells you how to use a Pulse Ox when flying?
I seriously doubt there's any one number/table that will work 100% of the time. My own numbers change over time and with how I'm feeling, etc. And what is "good?"

Speaking to those of you who have not been at altitude and used supplemental O2, you need to try it and experiment a little. More O2 means more brain power (unfortunately, limited by your seal level brainpower of course).

On a cross country, I'll use a minimum to keep me clear headed and what I feel is out of headache zone. I want to be functional but not waste all my O2. When it comes time for dealing with crowded airspace, approaches, etc. I'll turn it up. How much? Enough to make my brain work better. And I can almost always feel the difference as I increase flow. Point being, it's not black and white and each situation differs somewhat. The O2 sat meter just gets you in the ballpark.
__________________
Bryan

Houston
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:24 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.