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  #51  
Old 11-25-2020, 10:09 AM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 223
Default RV-10 $18,000 insurance quote

You are exactly right and that is called bad faith claim handling. The insurance company has a fiduciary duty to its insured to handle the claim in good faith. So in the situation you described, the insurance really has no limits after it refuses to settle the claim within the limits.

The other side of that situation is the when that claim in initially reported, the insurance company will send you a letter telling you that your liability limits are $100,000.00 and that the value of the liability claim may be more than your limits. The letter will suggest that you hire a personal attorney (in addition to the attorney the insurance company hired to defend you) to help you decide if you need to offer your personal assets in addition to the money from the insurance policy to settle the claim.

Many times in the course of the litigation, the plaintiff's attorney will be investigating you personal assets to see of there are assets to supplement the limits the insurance company has.

That is why you should buy the highest limits you can get. The highest I could get on my RV-12 for a passenger is $200,000.00. Since my Onex is a single seat aircraft, there is no sub-limit for passengers.

This is not a good situation to be in and it happens.
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John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #52  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:34 PM
NewbRVator NewbRVator is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 261
Default

IIWY I would get transition training in type in an instructor’s plane. Get liability only plus non-in motion full coverage for airplane so you fulfill Airport requirements. Fly, fly, fly get more time and ratings. Then apply for full coverage.
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  #53  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:54 PM
wilddog wilddog is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: va.
Posts: 587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotyoung View Post
You are exactly right and that is called bad faith claim handling. The insurance company has a fiduciary duty to its insured to handle the claim in good faith. So in the situation you described, the insurance really has no limits after it refuses to settle the claim within the limits.

The other side of that situation is the when that claim in initially reported, the insurance company will send you a letter telling you that your liability limits are $100,000.00 and that the value of the liability claim may be more than your limits. The letter will suggest that you hire a personal attorney (in addition to the attorney the insurance company hired to defend you) to help you decide if you need to offer your personal assets in addition to the money from the insurance policy to settle the claim.

Many times in the course of the litigation, the plaintiff's attorney will be investigating you personal assets to see of there are assets to supplement the limits the insurance company has.

That is why you should buy the highest limits you can get. The highest I could get on my RV-12 for a passenger is $200,000.00. Since my Onex is a single seat aircraft, there is no sub-limit for passengers.

This is not a good situation to be in and it happens.
Wouldn’t having insurance only make one a bigger target in a suit? I never hear of death suits and few injury suits settled for only a couple hundred thousand. And if it is suggested one hire their own attorney, what good is the insurance co.’s defense? If you have a net worth of say $5m, have $1m insurance, lose a suit to the tune of $6m, would you be left with only your lawyer’s bill?
The best defense is to not own enough to make a suit worth the lawyers time. If you add some insurance, it becomes worthwhile.

Last edited by wilddog : 11-25-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:58 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilddog View Post
The best defense is to not own enough to make a suit worth the lawyers time.
Most RV builders, particularly RV-10 owners/builders have substantial assets, so that defense isn't really an option.
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2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10
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  #55  
Old 11-25-2020, 02:20 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilddog View Post
Wouldn’t having insurance only make one a bigger target in a suit? I never hear of death suits and few injury suits settled for only a couple hundred thousand. And if it is suggested one hire their own attorney, what good is the insurance co.’s defense? If you have a net worth of say $5m, have $1m insurance, lose a suit to the tune of $6m, would you be left with only your lawyer’s bill?
The best defense is to not own enough to make a suit worth the lawyers time. If you add some insurance, it becomes worthwhile.
Few atty’s will take the case if the only assets available are $100k in insurance. Insurance makes little difference in death or serious injuries. It helps a lot in minor cases where the passenger can get some financial relief without going to court. Insurance should reimburse medical expenses up to the limit without lawsuits. Attys will consider it if the defendant has $1m in assets outside of their home.
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N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 11-25-2020 at 02:25 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:29 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCool View Post
In this state, "going bare" isn't an option for an airworthy aircraft. Minnesota requires liability insurance as a condition of registration. Proof of insurance has to be included with each annual registration. Other states are similar in requiring liability insurance, or at least require proof of financial responsibility (usually in the form a surety bond of some kind). Proof of insurance is also required by the airport where I keep my plane as a condition of hangar rental. YMMV.


...
How do they enforce this? Aircraft registrations are submitted to the FAA, not the state government.


Skylor
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  #57  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:53 PM
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MacCool MacCool is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: central Minnesota
Posts: 347
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Annual state registration is required for all airplanes in Minnesota (there is no annual property tax on airplanes here). Every June 1. Unrelated to FAA registration.

I also have to provide proof of insurance when I pay my annual car registrations, which is actually quite a bit higher than my airplane registration.
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  #58  
Old 11-25-2020, 09:00 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,163
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The majority of states have no rules requiring insurance for airplanes; some do, but the required coverage is usually ludicrously low. More common is for airports to require liability coverage from their tenants; but this is not to protect tenants, it’s because the airport wants itself to be a named insured. They want to be sure that they’re covered for anything a tenant might do.
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  #59  
Old 11-25-2020, 09:19 PM
leok leok is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 403
Default An actual example

2020 insurance with around 650 hrs, (not IFR),250 HP/Complex and 3 hrs transition training I was at about $4,000. Hard to say exactly because I transitioned from builders to flying insurance after about 3 mos..

2021 with 110 hrs RV10 time added I am at $3,100

Hull value at 225K both years.
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  #60  
Old 11-26-2020, 07:23 AM
Kooshball Kooshball is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 163
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Most responses on this thread are only dealing with passenger risk...what if you have an abrupt in flight failure and crash into a crowded building, or land on a road causing a bus full of people to wreck? Clearly none of these limits will be enough.

Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?
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