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can I do a roll on climb out...

schristo@mac.com

[email protected]

Well Known Member
Question to self... I wonder how quickly I can climb to the acrobatic box?

hmmmmm. The plane is pretty light right now and the density altitude is crazy low... let's see!

Like I said pretty light... I could lighten it up another 30 lbs by pulling out my flight bag and leaving a couple of gallons behind but that would be about as light as I can go and have a legal reserve. I estimate the flight weight at 1,360.

My home airport, KAWO, is just above sea level (128 feet at the 34 threshold) and today the density altitude -640.

I rolled on to the runway without any special issue and smoothly applied power.

Airborne within 10 seconds.
Build speed just off the runway to 110 mph at 14 seconds with an immediate pull to maintain 110 mph.
Rate of climb is above 3,000 fpm at 20 seconds and peaks at 3,500 at 27 seconds while holding 110 mph.
Still climbing at 3,000 fpm passing through 1,500 AGL holding 110 mph right at the end of the runway...

WOW ;)

Okay, I admit, I am gloating a bit... but WOW... I love my plane!

The whole climb is maintained at just under 30 degrees holding 110 mph and averaging around 3,200 fpm.

screenshot20130220at856.jpg


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Maybe.

Looks like a question in the post's title.

An RV can do a roll on climbout but can you? You have some very impressive climb numbers but we don't know your skill level, so it's a difficult question to answer.

Best,
 
You probably *can* do it, but likely *may* not. 14CFR91.303 sub-part (c) is likely a restriction in this case and maybe (a) or (d).

Not trying to be a buzz kill...that is great performance. A while back some told a story of calling clear of the class D on initial takeoff over the runway...clear as in above the airspace.

Best,

Jim


? 91.303
Aerobatic flight.
No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight?
(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;
(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;
(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;
(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;
(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or
(f) When flight visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight.
 
The OP mentioned 'climbing into and aerobatic box'. 'Can' seems more a reference of ability of plane and pilot, he did not mentioned if he should.

In terms of can, not knowing your piloting skills, lets looks strictly at the plane for a moment. Ill also assume your box is surface. NOT all boxes are. In fact many are not when they are set up by IAC folks. But lets just assume surface for a moment.

Roll ability is strictly a speed issue, not an altitude issue. Even in our RV's, they are quite capable of a slow roll (roll with no change in heading or altitude done slowly ... roughly half aileron deflection) from a 100' deck. It does however take a lot of speed and skill to do it. We have to do it for our surface SAC cards.

Anything below ~130kts, in a slow roll, pushes my personal limits of skill risk to accomplish the task. While I have demonstrated I can slow roll at 90kts and not loose altitude(this is really hard in an RV), it violates my personal 'should' clause.
 
A guy did that about a year ago back east. He died in the crash.
Yes you can do it ... but may not live through it :eek:
 
Ever seen those popular "You're Doing it Wrong" posters?

...well, here's the video

...and a Pitts has a LOT more capability than a RV-7...
 
Toobuilder said:
Ever seen those popular "You're Doing it Wrong" posters?

...well, here's the video

...and a Pitts has a LOT more capability than a RV-7...
Click to expand...

This accident had nothing to do with the airplane it was all pilot, both the RV-7 or the Pitts could pull this off safely under the control of a skilled pilot, not saying you should go out and try it. I think Stephen is just enjoying his airplane and bragging a little.
 
climb performance...

The post is really about amazing climb performance...

1,500 AGL on climb out by the end of the runway... 30 degrees at 110 mph pulling 3,200 fpm.

1,500 is the technical floor for FAR compliance... not intended to be the entry altitude. Good comments from Kahuna on slow rolls and energy. With a bit of energy an RV can do a climbing roll but you lose energy pretty quickly.

I don't think an RV can do a slow climbing roll in any configuration... at least I can't...
 
[email protected] said:
Good comments from Kahuna on slow rolls and energy. With a bit of energy an RV can do a climbing roll but you lose energy pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

I think this sums up pretty well the difference in an RV and a true aerobatic aircraft. RV's do a lot of things well, including aerobatics. But, they don't do any one thing extremely well like a purpose built machine will. They fly so well and do so many things well they can lull you into a sense of invincibility.

I have witnessed an RV8 departing our field with a beautiful roll on climb out. It was smooth and precise and there was no dip or loss of altitude. He kept the nose low and built up airspeed prior to pulling for climb out. It was obvious he knew what he was doing. It was also illegal.

Kahuna - It would be of value to post how Team Aerodynamix came to be, the experience your pilots have, the build up and practice you did solo before ever teaming up, and the regimen you maintain to be able to safely do what you do. Very few would have the committment....I know I don't.

So - Stephen, yes, you can do a roll on climb out in an RV, as you already know.

For others reading this; It is far less about the capability of machine and man than it is about committment to doing it right. Don't underestimate that effort.
 
Russ McCutcheon said:
This accident had nothing to do with the airplane it was all pilot, both the RV-7 or the Pitts could pull this off safely under the control of a skilled pilot...
Click to expand...

Of course it was a pilot thing. After all, look what Bob Hoover does with a corporate twin!

The point is, if this guy screwed up a simple roll in a Pitts...
 
JonJay said:
Kahuna - It would be of value to post how Team Aerodynamix came to be, the experience your pilots have, the build up and practice you did solo before ever teaming up, and the regimen you maintain to be able to safely do what you do.
Click to expand...

Jon, Please start another thread on this and Ill do my best. I dont want to get this thread off course.
 
David-aviator said:
Blue Angels and Thunderbirds do it all the time....but they have a bit more power and moxie, don't they. :)
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying David and I am sure you are gesting abit. They may have moxie, but their dedication to training and practice and a regime that keeps skills sharp is what they have.
I can not think of any manuever I perform in my airplane that I ever ask my self "do you have the guts to do it?" If I have to ask the question, I have not prepared properly. I am still trying to work up to the point I don't have to ask that question with a snap roll in the Bucker. I am not sure I will ever get there.
 
DakotaHawk said:
Stephen,

You should check out this thread. Time for some competition.
Click to expand...

Hey Scott, that's a fun game too. When that thread came out I made a couple of 10,000 foot AGL runs in right around 5 minutes. The SkyView system did not have data logging then so I did not post. I will have to make another run when the weather cooperates now that I can capture the details for examination.

This sprint to 1,500 uses less fuel and is easy to coordinate ;)
 
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