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  #1  
Old 03-26-2021, 09:05 AM
ronshort2000 ronshort2000 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: CATAWBA, SC
Posts: 9
Default Pulled the trigger - common mods?

Been lurking and watching for a while and a couple of weeks ago I finally pulled the trigger on an emp for the -10. Lead time was 6 weeks when I ordered and I see that has bumped up to 4 months, and wings went from 5 to 6 months. On top of my regular schedule for working on the plane, I have 4 weeks of vacation time this summer so I figure I can finish the emp in 5 – 6 months. That means I really need to order the wings now to avoid a work stoppage. Makes me a little nervous to order the wings before even starting the emp, but with the lead times we are seeing, it makes sense.

My big issue now is deciding what mods I want for the wings and if I need to have Vans modify the kit. I am seriously thinking about the zip tips. I like the integrated lights, but they are a good bit of money. Other than looks and ease have people noticed any other benefits from the zip tips? How is the quality of the lighting for taxi and landing?

I am also going to go with Advanced Flight Systems and the autopilot servos for ailerons and elevator. Is there any changes needed for installing these? Should I order the servo now so that I can put it in the emp as I build it?
Any other common mods for the wings I should be considering? I want to keep the cost and time reasonable so not going overboard, but don’t want to miss something Important either.

Any other suggestion and hints would be very appreciated. And Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2021, 09:20 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,459
Default

Servos are designed to be installed fairly easily after the structure is complete. Given the dynamic nature of the avionics market and hardware development, I’d suggest holding off as long as possible before choosing a brand. Not that AFS doesn’t make great products today, but they might make better products tomorrow.
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Marietta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10

Last edited by Kyle Boatright : 03-26-2021 at 09:36 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2021, 09:26 AM
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marchudson marchudson is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Texas
Posts: 195
Default Welcome

Ron welcome to the good ship VAF.
I don’t have any experience with the zip tips but will give a “tip” of my own. Think carefully about any modifications that you plan on doing to the kit. Have I done mods to mine, yes (eyeball plastic vents changed to all metal as an example). Some mods are easy and for additional $$$ “might” perform better. Others will require a substantial amount of time and money yet still might not perform the associated task any better than the design philosophy that Vans has laid out. Have a read as to what others have done and see if they have experienced the level of success you are looking for. Google does a great job of searching the forums, yoursearchtermhere site:vansairforce.net

I pretty sure AFS will build your panel with either the AF-5000 series or the Dynon system. Give AFS a shout and they can tell you what AP servo/install kit to order given the brand of avionics you plan on going with. If it were me, I would install the AP servo and wiring before closing up the fuselage. I “try” to do this with all the sub-assemblies that I build. Don’t worry too much if you miss something, I have crawled to the back / under many time to install the items missed.

Again welcome.
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2021, 09:59 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,947
Default

Things like which EFIS system you want can be deferred. For the Tail Kit I do recommend getting the ADAHRS module mounting kit from Van’s as this will work to mount most modules (like Dynon and Garmin). One mount will handle both SkyView modules. For $20 is this is a good deal.

For other big mods, I look at each for what it does for the mission I have for the plane (efficient cross country cruise). For example:
- Zip Tips. These are pricey and do not provide increase in performance. While the lighting is cool, standard LED landing lights and NAV/Strobes more than meet my mission. Decide what best meets your mission.
- Most EFII options require a fuel return line to the tanks - so if you go down this road you need to build these returns into your tanks. My study of EFII does not indicate any performance or efficiency gains over pMag ignitions and a balanced traditional fuel injection system, but does add cost and complexity. Many people however swear by these systems so you decide what you want to do.
- Battery mount. If you plan on a dual battery set up, the stock mount can be modified to hold two PC-625 batteries (did this for both of my RV-10 builds). This decision can be deferred until you start running fuselage wires.

Carl
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2021, 10:33 AM
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9GT 9GT is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,110
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Hold off on any avionics purchase until nearing the end of the build, including A/P servos and brackets, They can easily be installed when the wings are done. Just plan ahead and run a couple wire chase's for pulling wires. Don't forget the pull string!
I like the look of the ZipTips, but again they will be an added cost and modification you will have to deal with. The costs will be somewhat offset by the deletion of the parts they replace. I will probable go with them on my current RV-10 build because I like how they look, they solve the issue of lighting in one complete package, and the wow factor of the style.
I modified the stock battery tray of my last RV-10 for dual PC680's, along with dual master contactor's. I was thankful for the added aft weight when I did my W&B.
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RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2021, 11:02 AM
AlpineYoda AlpineYoda is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 274
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Speaking from experience, zip tips take a lot of work and there is no common installation procedure. Some people use nutplates and screws, some piano hinge. Lots of work cutting to size and figuring out how to mount them. Probably not much more work than cutting holes in the leading edge for other lights, but still a lot of work.

For AP servos, I don't know how AFS installs so I cannot help you there. I bought Garmin AP servos from SteinAir and they came with install kits and great directions from Garmin. A couple of bell crank pieces come out, the Garmin pieces drop right in, mounting to existing hardware. The entire installation of both a wing servo (roll) and a tailcone servo (pitch) took me a short afternoon.

One mod I don't see in your list is pitot. The Van's plans call for a simple piece of tubing bent forward and sticking out of a hole in the wing. I went with a heated regulated Garmin Gap 26 with AOA. Most pitot tubes have a common shape and can use a pitot mast. Spruce sells a really nice mast for about $60 that rivets to a spar and the skin. If you want to have any kind of pitot better than just 1/4 inch aluminum tubing, you need to start thinking about that. And how to mount the heat controller - I went with nutplates on the access hole cover, the same way that the controller for the Van's supplied roll trim mounts.
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Last edited by AlpineYoda : 03-26-2021 at 02:24 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-26-2021, 02:06 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,435
Default ...and

I opted for ER tanks; the ziptips would not work without substantial modification with the ER tanks. That may be different now...

Aileron trim kit; easier to install while building.

If you want AOA, decide on a pitot tube; I used the regulated Garmin GAP26.

I installed the stock stall warning...wish I hadn’t...removed it and filled the holes.

If you do not use the zip tips, get the duck works mounts for landing lights.

Pitch and roll servo mounts

Plan for a fuel return if you are considering EFII. I used the System 32, and could not be happier. Starts like a car, hot or cold and I. The fly tuning...I love it!

I would use different fuel caps and flanges if I built again.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2021, 02:30 PM
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9GT 9GT is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post

I installed the stock stall warning...wish I hadn’t...removed it and filled the holes.


I would use different fuel caps and flanges if I built again.
Plus 1 for the stall warning. I did the same thing,,,,put it in, then removed it. I used the custom Andair locking fuel caps, but the downside is it has a smaller filler opening and that makes it more difficult to look in and watch as your fueling to judge the fuel level as you fill. If your not careful, you will have a big gush of fuel over the wing!
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Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2021
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2021, 02:56 PM
ronshort2000 ronshort2000 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: CATAWBA, SC
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineYoda View Post
Speaking from experience, zip tips take a lot of work
I was under the impression that the Zip Tips fit better and were easier to install. The lighting has to be easier or am I off on that one as well.

I will most likely do the zip tips just because I like the way the lights look. That will be my only extravagance for the build since I am trying to keep costs reasonable.
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2021, 03:02 PM
ronshort2000 ronshort2000 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: CATAWBA, SC
Posts: 9
Default What to delete from wing kit

Most of my question was geared towards what modifications do I need to make to the kit when I order. It sounds like removing the tips might be the only change?

Does the stall warning come as part of the kit? (would be easier if they provided a kit parts list in advance) I am going to go with a heated pitot and AOA since I am going full IFR.

Oh yeah, I also want the capacitive sensors for the fuel tanks. Not sure if that is what they are called.

I will wait for the last minute for avionics, was just wondering when I have to install the servos.

Thanks for all the help so far!
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