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  #11  
Old 01-23-2022, 11:20 AM
OKAV8r OKAV8r is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-mike View Post
Perhaps splitting hairs, but I think the A&P (or AI) needs to make/sign the logbook entry. (for the annual condition inspection)

I've been doing the heavy lifting on all my condition inspections, with an A&P supervising. i.e. open all the panels, lube, change the oil, open the filter, etc. I use a comprehensive checklist. He is also my tech advisor, and has signed a recommendation letter towards my A&P, so he is very comfortable with my work.
If I may, let me add some conditioner to your split hairs. An owner may assist me by opening the airplane up, and doing Part 43 app A preventive maintenance, by if they want me to sign off an inspection, then I am the one doing the inspecting. Supervised maintenance functions are allowed, supervised inspections are not, at least as I am concerned.
Thanks
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2022, 11:30 AM
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fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKAV8r View Post
If I may, let me add some conditioner to your split hairs. An owner may assist me by opening the airplane up, and doing Part 43 app A preventive maintenance, by if they want me to sign off an inspection, then I am the one doing the inspecting. Supervised maintenance functions are allowed, supervised inspections are not, at least as I am concerned.
Thanks
I think we are saying the same thing. A&P does the inspection.

To the OP question, yes, he can install his oil shutter.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2022, 11:36 AM
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jrtens jrtens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Utah
Posts: 271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Although it is a very good idea to do do, no logbook or records are required to be kept at all for EAB, except for the annual condition inspection. So if you do keep records, anyone (or no one) may sign them.
I do not see an exclusion for experimental aircraft for FAR 91.417?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.417
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2019 12iS SLSA
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Last edited by jrtens : 01-23-2022 at 01:02 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2022, 11:40 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
Posts: 1,665
Default Re-educating the masses..

This is netter than the primer wars, and even more!
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Jerry "Widget" Morris
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2022, 11:59 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtens View Post
I do not see an exclusion for experimental aircraft for FAR 91.147?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.417
The relevant CFAR is 43.1
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...pter-C/part-43

In particular 43.1(B)

For clarity purposes.... One of the purposes of FAR 43 is to regulate what level of certification is required for a person to do what types of Maint. and Inspection work on Type Certificated aircraft.

43.1)B) states that the entire Part (43) does not apply to an aircraft with an experimental airworthiness certificate.

This is why the operating limitations that are issued to an Experimental Amateur Built aircraft have line items stating what inspection has to be done, and when; and who can do that inspection. Because all of rules in FAR 43 that would have applied regarding these requirements, don't, because of 43.1(B).
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2022, 12:00 PM
Pdp7427 Pdp7427 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Georgia
Posts: 32
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EAA Sport Aviation Magazine, September 2021. Page 30.

There is a table that breaks out who can do what according to what type of plane.

If you have digital access to their archive thatís the easiest way to find it.

Patrick
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2022, 12:33 PM
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jrtens jrtens is offline
 
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Location: Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The relevant CFAR is 43.1
Yep - got that - see post #6

Not talking about who can do the maintenance anymore - talking about the requirement for maintenance records.

A statement was made that "no logbook or records are required to be kept at all for EAB except for the annual condition

inspection." My question was where does it say that FAR 91.417 doesn't apply to experimental aircraft?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Last edited by jrtens : 01-23-2022 at 01:56 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2022, 03:45 PM
gfb gfb is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Madison, WI
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So hereís the thing. We all believe we are super mechanics and can do anything, yet we donít make our living working on and inspecting aircraft. There is something to be said for experience being important when it comes to certain things. I urge all of us to have an A&P do our condition inspections every so often. Having a fresh, experienced set of eyes looking things over can beÖ eye opening.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2022, 04:21 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfb View Post
So hereís the thing. We all believe we are super mechanics and can do anything, yet we donít make our living working on and inspecting aircraft. There is something to be said for experience being important when it comes to certain things. I urge all of us to have an A&P do our condition inspections every so often. Having a fresh, experienced set of eyes looking things over can beÖ eye opening.
Even though I am an A&P, and have been for almost 50 years, I still have a different mechanic do my inspection every few years. Different eyes see different things.

I've been proposing to the FAA for several years that a "Repairman" for an amateur-built aircraft should be required to have an experienced mechanic walk him through his first Condition Inspection. Knowing how to build an airplane does not mean that you know how to inspect one.

Just my opinion! Obviously not a real popular one.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2022, 04:36 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Even though I am an A&P, and have been for almost 50 years, I still have a different mechanic do my inspection every few years. Different eyes see different things.

I've been proposing to the FAA for several years that a "Repairman" for an amateur-built aircraft should be required to have an experienced mechanic walk him through his first Condition Inspection. Knowing how to build an airplane does not mean that you know how to inspect one.

Just my opinion! Obviously not a real popular one.
It is a great idea. For the first several years (and occasionally since then), I had one of the local IA's give the FWF on my airplane the once-over after I finished the inspection. Nothing out of sorts has turned up yet, but I consider it good insurance.

I don't worry as much about missing something on the airfame portion. Its fairly simple with a couple of dozen important points to examine - largely attachment points and control systems.
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Last edited by Kyle Boatright : 01-23-2022 at 05:32 PM.
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