Cheap ELT

Want an ELT-type device that's cheap? - I mean free? How about this:

RE: A Phone service you probably have, but not activated.
Full time "LOCATION ON".

Most new phones have a GPS chip imbedded inside. The reason for this was in days past when you called 911 the police could not locate earlier phones. By default most phones are set to ONLY respond to the GPS "ping" when you are on the 911 line. That is good but what's below I think is better.

You can and probably should set your locator to ON full time.

Here are a few good reasons why:

1. It will not cost any money including decreased battery
Charge.
2. It will allow you to "generally" locate a lost phone
3. It will allow loved ones to locate your phone (and hopefully you) if you run into trouble.
A. Think about a fall from a tree in the woods,
B. Your car wreck in a rural hidden ravine
C. Trapped on an ice flow in lake Erie after a whole day
Catching walleye
D. An encounter with some bad hombres (most famous eg. Is girl taken from a MO. Target. The police traced her abductor path
and found the phone and her but got there too late).
E. A health issue just about anywhere.
F. And tons of other reasons why locating you in a hurry
Could be important.
G. Off airport landing - for whatever reason....


Doesn't it raise a security risk? In my view not a credible one. Generally a bad guy has to know the Mobile number to conduct a search. I give mine out to a relatively small circle. If it is a big brother issue of large companies tracking my phones where-abouts, I am not concerned if they know I shop at WalMart.

Further, most bad guys already have easy access to your address, workplace, and therefore you. Not likely they would somehow come across your mobile number and then use it in some way to locate you. So none of these so called risks really bother me. What does bother me is not knowing where a loved is when there is trouble. If you have youngins then, you may wish to look into Sprint's Family Finder or Verizon's Chaperone.

How do you activate?

1. In most phones use your MENU to select TOOL Icon > phone settings > location
Select "LOCATION ON" it will work now full time.

All service providers have a version of this service that allows YOU to have the software on your own computer to track your loved ones phones.
Verizon = Chaperone (free for adult phones)
Sprint = Family Finder

Two important tips:
1. Always take phone with, and
2. Don't turn it off, just silence it when necessary.

I know - there are a lot of places this may not work, but in most places it will a long as you didn't damage/loose the phone in the crash - plus it's free!!! Sweet words to any pilot.

Scott


________________________________________________________

Scott,

While this is a good idea in theory, it won't work in the real world.

I do a lot of backpacking and what I have found is that most backpackers, including myself, do not carry cell phones or GPS?s. The reason is simple, while you might get some reception on a mountain top, down in the ravines there is none.

Same reason we never carry a GPS, down in the valleys they can't "see" enough satellites to get a fix.

It all depends on where you go down, how you go down, etc. and for the cell phone to work, it depends on you going down close to a cell tower.

I wasn't actually serious about this idea replacing an ELT, but in many places in the country (I live east of the Mississippi) there is nearly complete cell coverage, depending on your provider. Check out their coverage maps. The chances are way higher than 50% that you would have coverage where you went down. If you can just get Garmin to download a cell coverage map onto your map page, you could plan your flight accordingly.

Scott

Scott,

I too live east of the Mississippi and have spent a lot of time in the hills we have out here. Trust me; if you are relying on getting a cell signal in the Appalachian mountains, you are going to be waiting for a long time for the SAR team to arrive.

One other little problem, when flying most cell phones loose signal and then burn up their battery trying to contact a tower. (I'm not sure if they are running in analog mode or not.) What that means is your cell battery will mostly likely be dead when you need it most.

FWIW, I turn off my cell when going on long flights over the Appalachian Mountains.

N941WR said:

FWIW, I turn off my cell when going on long flights over the Application Mountains.

Click to expand...

Applications? Is that the range that runs through Pennsyltucky?

Poor Scott,
This is what becomes of repeat offenders, when there plane is down at some distant place(like a paint shop), and there is no project at home. The building process has become such a part of our lives that when you take it away, we literally go nuts. Scott thought making beer would be his salvation, but now he has to wait 6 weeks to find out if thats a viable hobby.

Scott, Do the letters A..P...R...S mean anything to you? Please do some research on this and get back to me. I was following that thread last spring before the planes were flying, but now when I look, it's too daunting.

captainron said:

Applications? Is that the range that runs through Pennsyltucky?

Click to expand...

Two funny...

Bill,
OK, so I guess I'll have to try not to crash on a mountain. That still leaves a lot of possibilities. I've left my phone on in flight probably hundreds of times (by mistake) and the battery has never run down. In fact it's pretty fired up right now and I just landed in Jacksonville. It might be a dumb idea, but I'm stickin with it.... (unless I'm somewhere I don't want my wife to know about).

Scott

Jon,

The beer will be ice-cold and ready to sample on Friday.....

Scott

Well.... I just went to the Verizon site and it costs 9.95/month for the Chaperone tracking service. Doesn't quite fit my cheap requirement. Maybe APRS is a better idea long term. I have to see if I can get a heath kit or maybe one from that electronic gizmo company in Utah. The 260.00 kit price for the APRS doesn't fit either, but maybe I can build my own. Don't have anything else to do.....

Scott

N941WR said:

Scott,

While this is a good idea in theory, it won't work in the real world.

I do a lot of backpacking and what I have found is that most backpackers, including myself, do not carry cell phones or GPS?s. The reason is simple, while you might get some reception on a mountain top, down in the ravines there is none.

Same reason we never carry a GPS, down in the valleys they can't "see" enough satellites to get a fix.

It all depends on where you go down, how you go down, etc. and for the cell phone to work, it depends on you going down close to a cell tower.

Click to expand...

That puts up a question on the gps. Does that mean the new 406 elt will be useless in the mountains as well?

I live and fly in the west. Cell phone coverage is not anywhere close to 100%. ATC flight following (radar coverage ) is not 100%.

I bought a 406 MHz PLB (with GPS) to use flying, hiking, in a car, etc. Eventually I will get an APRS unit. Maybe I should just get it now. Yes, I will.

Cheap is good. Reliable is better if your life is worth saving.

Scott Hersha said:

Well.... I just went to the Verizon site and it costs 9.95/month for the Chaperone tracking service. Doesn't quite fit my cheap requirement. Maybe APRS is a better idea long term. I have to see if I can get a heath kit or maybe one from that electronic gizmo company in Utah. The 260.00 kit price for the APRS doesn't fit either, but maybe I can build my own. Don't have anything else to do.....

Scott

Click to expand...

Micro-Trak 300 (144.39) for $105, assembled, tested and ready to fly:

http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/mt300.php

Just hook up to a GPS data feed on your plane and a cheap antenna, pass the Tech exam (easy) and you are good to go.

Sam,
I'm assuming that the easiest solution would be to mount the tracker and antenna in the removable wingtip. Then run how many wires out to it?
I assume GPS rs232 from my 496 1 wire
GND for pwr/rs232 gnd? 1 wire
PWR for + 12V(?) 1 wire

If this is the case I think I'd just grab 15 ft of 3 conducter shielded( for ease of fishing the wire).

Did I read somewhere that the tracker needs 5V, if so do they make a converter?

jthocker said:

Sam,
I'm assuming that the easiest solution would be to mount the tracker and antenna in the removable wingtip. Then run how many wires out to it?
I assume GPS rs232 from my 496 1 wire
GND for pwr/rs232 gnd? 1 wire
PWR for + 12V(?) 1 wire

If this is the case I think I'd just grab 15 ft of 3 conducter shielded( for ease of fishing the wire).

Did I read somewhere that the tracker needs 5V, if so do they make a converter?

Click to expand...

Jon, that will do it if you use the MT-300, it is fine with aircraft bus voltage. If you use the MT-8000FA, also buy the little MicroVolt power supply so aircraft bus can be regulated at 12vdc for the tracker. MT-8000FA requires max of 12vdc.

If you use the Byonics GPS receiver, it runs on 5vdc which the tracker can provide. But your installation won't require the receiver so no need for 5vdc.

Thanks Sam,
I know all this info is in the APRS forum somewhere, now I know how a newbie RV builder must feel when they find this website.

Try here Jon

http://tinyurl.com/624vv6

allbee said:

That puts up a question on the gps. Does that mean the new 406 elt will be useless in the mountains as well?

Click to expand...

My experience, is that you need to be in a rather narrow canyon for GPS's, or XM Satellite radio to not work. I do live in a mountainous area.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

L.Adamson said:

My experience, is that you need to be in a rather narrow canyon for GPS's, or XM Satellite radio to not work. I do live in a mountainous area.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

Click to expand...

Also, the 406 ELTs do not have to have GPS to work. They do work better with a GPS fix.

L.Adamson said:

My experience, is that you need to be in a rather narrow canyon for GPS's, or XM Satellite radio to not work. I do live in a mountainous area.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

Click to expand...

You would be surprised. The canyon doesn't need to be that Narrow to block enough satellites. It is all about where you come to rest.

Here in the East, the canyons tend to be shallower than what they have out west (I?ve hiked both) but the walls here seem to be a bit more steep. (I?m not talking about the Narrows in Zion National Park, which I have also through hiked.) I suspect this is one reason why a GPS is of limited value.

Should you install a 406 ELT, activate it as soon as you experience engine trouble while still in the clear.

"Should you install a 406 ELT, activate it as soon as you experience engine trouble while still in the clear."

Smartest thing I have read yet anywhere about the use of the 406 ELT.

N941WR said:

You would be surprised. The canyon doesn't need to be that Narrow to block enough satellites. It is all about where you come to rest.

Here in the East, the canyons tend to be shallower than what they have out west (I’ve hiked both) but the walls here seem to be a bit more steep. (I’m not talking about the Narrows in Zion National Park, which I have also through hiked.) I suspect this is one reason why a GPS is of limited value.

Should you install a 406 ELT, activate it as soon as you experience engine trouble while still in the clear.

Click to expand...

I'd hit the 911 button on SPOT..... too. Much of where I fly (Colorado & Green rivers) is rugged like Zions. We take a RV (as in road vehicle) trip to Zions every April. I could take along the Lowrance 600C just to see what it can or can't do. I think my 696 is just a bit too oversized for hiking..

L.Adamson

Just to emphasize a point about 406MHz ELTs... Their operation is unaffected by GPS. If GPS position data is available through an appropriate interface the ELT will broadcast that position data in addition to the uniquely coded digital signature of that ELT. If GPS position data is not available the ELT will broadcast the uniquely coded digital signature of the ELT. With GPS data the geostationary satellites will be able to relay to the rescue coordination centre your unique ELT identity and your position. In the absence of GPS data the geostationary satellites will relay only your unique ELT identity to the rescue coordination centre, which will in turn trigger a communications search for you. After some period of time (depending on where you crash and the configuration of the satellite constellation at that time, but at no time in excess of 90 minutes and typcially well under 45 minutes) a low-earth-orbit satellite will pass by and use Doppler techniques to determine the ELT position (to within about 3nm radius). This position information will then be relayed to the rescue coordination centre.

From the above I hope it's clear that GPS is not an integral function of 406MHz ELTs, and that crashsite location can still be obtained without having GPS data available to the ELT.