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  #21  
Old 04-13-2021, 01:51 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,987
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I once had a gentleman call me and ask if I could do a Condition Inspection on his RV. He had just bought it and brought it here from out of state. I told him I didn't have the time right now and referred him to an A&P friend in Mineral Wells.

My friend called me a while later and thanked me for the year long project to make the airplane airworthy. He sent me MANY pictures of phone wire run through garden hose, rivet holes sans rivets, figure 8 holes in critical spar mounting places, and on, and on, and on.

Some of those photos have been used in Vic Syracuse' articles in KitPlanes.

I've been asked to amend airworthiness certificates that expired 40 years ago, and yet the annual condition inspection had been signed off every year.

You would not believe some of the the things us "old timers" have seen.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2021, 03:57 PM
Aryana Aryana is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Western US
Posts: 104
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I've seen some A&P's (and IA's) that are so bad, I wouldn't even let them work on my car, much less my airplane.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've seen some really talented non-certificated mechanics who are amazingly skilled and thorough.
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2021, 03:59 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Worland, Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I've been asked to amend airworthiness certificates that expired 40 years ago, and yet the annual condition inspection had been signed off every year.
Airworthiness certificates expire? I can't find anything indicating it on mine. Did this change at some point? Just trying to gobble up the info!
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:00 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
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I found this on a 12. Bolts too short? No. Just too many washers on the back side. I just removed the excess washers and it was fine. I also found several rows of missing rivets. One row held the bottom skin to the firewall.
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Wag Aero Sport Trainer built,sold and wrecked
N588DF RV12 #336 built, sold and alive and well in New York
N73DF RV12 #244 built, sold and alive and well in Florida
N91 RV RV9 I wish I could say I built this one! Mark Santoleri hit the ball out of the park on this gem.
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:30 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Location: Dayton, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne View Post
Airworthiness certificates expire? I can't find anything indicating it on mine. Did this change at some point? Just trying to gobble up the info!
Many years ago, “special” airworthiness certificates (Experimental certificates are special) expired every year. Not so today.
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:56 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ty1295 View Post
For example.
[list][*]Speaker wire for the mag wiring.
I think I am going to chuck this as my favorite and see if I can find some speaker wire to use as spark plug wire. Wire needs to carry electricity right and I think speaker wire should be able to do that
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  #27  
Old 04-13-2021, 08:21 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Many years ago, “special” airworthiness certificates (Experimental certificates are special) expired every year. Not so today.
Roger that Paul. Thanks for the knowledge!
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2021, 08:52 PM
pat76cj pat76cj is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Western edge, Iowa
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDeanda View Post
Jeff, I'm sorry your A&P and IA let you down. I'm also sorry when home builders don't perform well. I am a long time A&P, I've been fooling around with little airplanes for decades, both as a career and an avocation, (I love 'em!) and I've seen plenty of problems on amateur-built and type-certificated airplanes. I'm not sure if homebuilts are worse than TCed airplanes, I don't care, and I'm very uncomfortable with the finger pointing. People are people, misteaks, shortcuts and outright bad moves are made by all of them. I see no profit trying to figure out which is which. To answer your final question, suggest the only way to fix this is for folks like to you and I to continue to be vigilant to find and fix things whenever we can. We are all always looking, refining, fixing, improving and tweaking these machines because none of them are perfect or ever will be. In this game, the journey to perfection is the thing, not the destination because we can't get there. And like Ron Reagan said, "Trust, but verify," no matter who built it, modified it or maintained it.
Well said. Mistakes will happen, learn from them and move on.
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  #29  
Old 04-14-2021, 06:01 AM
ty1295 ty1295 is offline
 
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Location: Jeffersonville, IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
I think I am going to chuck this as my favorite and see if I can find some speaker wire to use as spark plug wire. Wire needs to carry electricity right and I think speaker wire should be able to do that
I forgot the same airplane had what was basically clear chain saw fuel tube ran into the cockpit, secured with safety wire for the primer lines.
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  #30  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:06 PM
agent4573 agent4573 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Mountain view
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne View Post
Airworthiness certificates expire? I can't find anything indicating it on mine. Did this change at some point? Just trying to gobble up the info!
§ 21.181 Duration.
(a) Unless sooner surrendered, suspended, revoked, or a termination date is otherwise established by the FAA, airworthiness certificates are effective as follows:

(1) Standard airworthiness certificates, special airworthiness certificates - primary category, and airworthiness certificates issued for restricted or limited category aircraft are effective as long as the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations are performed in accordance with Parts 43 and 91 of this chapter and the aircraft are registered in the United States.
(2) A special flight permit is effective for the period of time specified in the permit.
(3) A special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category is effective as long as -
(i) The aircraft meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft;
(ii) The aircraft conforms to its original configuration, except for those alterations performed in accordance with an applicable consensus standard and authorized by the aircraft's manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA;
(iii) The aircraft has no unsafe condition and is not likely to develop an unsafe condition; and
(iv) The aircraft is registered in the United States.

(4) An experimental certificate for research and development, showing compliance with regulations, crew training, or market surveys is effective for 1 year after the date of issue or renewal unless the FAA prescribes a shorter period. The duration of an experimental certificate issued for operating amateur-built aircraft, exhibition, air-racing, operating primary kit-built aircraft, or operating light-sport aircraft is unlimited, unless the FAA establishes a specific period for good cause.
(b) The owner, operator, or bailee of the aircraft must, upon request, make it available for inspection by the FAA.
(c) Upon suspension, revocation, or termination by order of the FAA of an airworthiness certificate, the owner, operator, or bailee of an aircraft must, upon request, surrender the certificate to the FAA.

Our airworthiness certs fall under "experimental - amateur built" and not R&D/training/market survey, so the regs don't specify an expiration date. That may not have been the case for the aircraft with valid annuals but an expired cert. Section 1a says it has to be maintained in accordance with standard techniques and practices and all ADs complied with in order for the cert to remain valid for standard certs. It doesn't explicitly say the same thing for experimental, but I think thats a gray area. You're technically allowed to ignore ADs and SBs for parts in your aircraft, and while the FAA won't revoke your cert for that, I wouldn't personally think an aircraft is airworthy with outstanding safety issues that need to be addressed. You may also be opening yourself up to liability if you sell your plane knowing it had safety issues that you didn't disclose or fix, but thats a question for the lawyers.
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Last edited by agent4573 : 04-14-2021 at 12:11 PM.
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