VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-02-2021, 01:30 PM
00Dan 00Dan is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 128
Default Updating old operating limitations

Pardon in advance if my search engine skills are lacking here. Is there a documented way of having existing operating limitations updated to the most recent verbiage? My plane has the old version that explicitly defines the test area and requires re-inspection for major changes.

Tangentially, are there any catches I should be aware of before going down this route? Is there anything in the new verbiage that would be more restrictive than what I have now?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-02-2021, 02:10 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,993
Default

Any DAR with the proper function code (147 for DAR-T or 57 for DAR=F) can amend you operating limitations. It's strictly a paperwork function. The aircraft must have a current condition inspection.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-02-2021, 02:45 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,430
Default

Read the new ops limits before you change...

You'll still need an inspection after major changes.

Ed
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
Too many safety posts purged without notice...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-02-2021, 03:01 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,993
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Read the new ops limits before you change...
You'll still need an inspection after major changes.
Ed
Explain Please?.......

The paragraph concerning major changes hasn't changed in over 15 years.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>

Last edited by Mel : 04-02-2021 at 03:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:22 AM
jnorris's Avatar
jnorris jnorris is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Explain Please?.......

The paragraph concerning major changes hasn't changed in over 15 years.
Mel is correct. Unless you have a REALLY old set of operating limitations, there will be no reinspection of the aircraft required after incorporation of a major change. This has been the case since about 2000 or 2001. Might have even been before that.
__________________
Cheers!

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-03-2021, 12:03 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,430
Default

My bad, I guess. The FAA guy did spend a lot of time looking over the entire engine installation in addition to data plate and paperwork...
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
Too many safety posts purged without notice...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:17 PM
pjc's Avatar
pjc pjc is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Read the new ops limits before you change...

You'll still need an inspection after major changes.

Ed
Is a (generic/boilerplate/template) for the EAB op lims currently issued available somewhere?

Peter
__________________
Vans RV6 flying
SZD 48-2 sold
2018, 19, 20 Dues paid
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2021, 05:46 PM
jnorris's Avatar
jnorris jnorris is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc View Post
Is a (generic/boilerplate/template) for the EAB op lims currently issued available somewhere?
Peter,

Yes, there is. While it is a bit cantankerous to figure out, the draft operating limitations can be found in appendix D of FAA Order 8130.2J. You can find the order via the FAA website at www.faa.gov.

To find the specific limitations that apply to amateur-built aircraft, look under the "Certification Basis" column for "191". Sometimes a particular limitation will apply to all aircraft certificated under 21.191, and sometimes you'll see a letter behind the 191. If there's a letter, you want to look at 191(g), which is the specific amateur-built paragraph in 21.191.

Yeah, clear as mud, right? But you asked!! This is the official guidance that inspectors (including DARs) use when issuing airworthiness certificates and operating limitations.
__________________
Cheers!

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2021, 07:23 PM
pjc's Avatar
pjc pjc is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorris View Post
Peter,

Yes, there is. While it is a bit cantankerous to figure out, the draft operating limitations can be found in appendix D of FAA Order 8130.2J. You can find the order via the FAA website at www.faa.gov.

To find the specific limitations that apply to amateur-built aircraft, look under the "Certification Basis" column for "191". Sometimes a particular limitation will apply to all aircraft certificated under 21.191, and sometimes you'll see a letter behind the 191. If there's a letter, you want to look at 191(g), which is the specific amateur-built paragraph in 21.191.

Yeah, clear as mud, right? But you asked!! This is the official guidance that inspectors (including DARs) use when issuing airworthiness certificates and operating limitations.
Excellent, thank you!

I have older (circa 2009) op lims that prohibit aerobatics and am considering re-doing some testing to have certain maneuvers allowed, but I understand I’ll likely get the full re-write so want to understand what I’m getting into ...
Peter

Edit: Follows clear directions from Joe above, tries to decipher Appendix D of 8130.2J as suggested. Shakes head. So yeah, *that* was unnecessarily complex. But thanks again anyway ... I’ve gained new respect for how DARs and FSDO folks have to do their jobs ...
__________________
Vans RV6 flying
SZD 48-2 sold
2018, 19, 20 Dues paid

Last edited by pjc : 04-04-2021 at 07:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:22 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc View Post
Excellent, thank you!

I have older (circa 2009) op lims that prohibit aerobatics and am considering re-doing some testing to have certain maneuvers allowed, but I understand Iíll likely get the full re-write so want to understand what Iím getting into ...
Peter

Edit: Follows clear directions from Joe above, tries to decipher Appendix D of 8130.2J as suggested. Shakes head. So yeah, *that* was unnecessarily complex. But thanks again anyway ... Iíve gained new respect for how DARs and FSDO folks have to do their jobs ...
You think thatís bad? In the REALLY old days, inspectors just seemed to make up whatever Ops Limits they wanted. I have a copy of the original Ops Lims for the RV-1 (they were re-issued every year because thatís what the rules were at the time - and every year, they were different....). The one I remember best was the last one, which read ďSmoking in the cockpit is prohibited while aircraft is in flightĒ. It was like number 8 - thatís how few there were. But for some reason, it was important enough to the inspector to make it one of the very few limitations. And I donít even know if Van smoked.....
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:19 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.