How does a family survive the building of an RV-10?

My husband is building an RV-10. I knew when I married him he would own an airplane one day. Turns out he took the easy way out and decided to build one. I'm starting to wish he just threw more money at it and spent his time flying instead. Tail and empennage arrived in 2005, were completed, and have been in storage since early Spring 2007. Wings arrived shortly there after. The unexpected arrival of our third baby threw things a bit, and he's been on forced hiatus for over half a year. To make the situation worse, we moved, also unexpectedly, and his hanger has to be rebuilt. Hanger = our garage. It's become clear to me that the itch to rebuild said hanger and start up again is back. I'm only surprised that it has taken this long, and I'm not yet withholding support. To that end, I ask any of you in this situation: how does a young family survive building an RV-10? We have three kids age 3, 2, and almost 10 months. We both work. We have both forgotten what the words "personal" and "time" mean. And that doesn't even begin to touch on what we need to maintain a marriage. So how do I remain a loving, supportive wife of this RV-10 project given all that we already have going on in our lives? Does he put if off 5 years? Or does he accept that while our kids are this little, ANY time at all working on it is a gift (my preference)? Do we schedule hanger time? Do we set a timer? Is every single minute he spends on this project eventually reciprocal? We had a little scuffle this weekend. I hear about all the RV-X blogs that start off with "loving wife" and end up with "divorce." So, when your kids were little and life was uber-challenging, what was the compromise?

Take it one step at a time and communication is key. It is all about give and take. You must allow him time to work on the project and in turn, he has to give back. If he wants it bad enough, he will figure out a way to find the time to do both.

Well, first off, let me welcome you aboard.

As to the airplane issues, I guess I am lucky that the time of small children is long past.

I would like to make a suggestion though.

Look for others in the area that are in a similar situation----homebuilders and small kids.

They may have found the answer, or you might be able to work together to trade kid time for plane building time-------

Join EAA, would be a great place to fine other builders.

And, as to RV-10 building, there is a guy in your area, SLC, who has a very nice 10. Name is Scott Schmidt------(he is pretty active here, he will probably chime in soon), who can be a great source of knowledge.

Good Luck, hang in there, the end does justify the means in this case.

Tell him what he is missing.

Wow. That is not good to hear the building of such a great plane is causing such issues/grief. I have two small children (7,9) and a very understanding wife. I am fortunate that my work allows me to do some building a couple days of the week, but i still am home in the evenings and weekends with my family. When I started the project i read a few things like DAN C's editorial on having a spouse in full agreement before you start. It seems to me that it would be impossible and unfair to build a plane if it takes away anything significant from my family. I have my kids come and help, they have sketched me new blueprints and my wife has come by many times to watch, have lunch etc. I do get in a little trouble for so much "research" on the net some evenings, but i think its way better time than watching tv. There are also a few days that a few chores around the house get done but i really wish i was at the shop. Your husband has to make some choices and for me...the plane is something i can enjoy building and my kids can learn that anything is possible in life. (a ten wasnt in the budget) but i have no interest in missing my kids growing up so i can build...its all about balance. If my wife or kids resent the plane and the time/money it took, that is way too high a cost. A ten is huge time and money investment. What is the point of 4 seats when nobody wants to be with you? Its supposed to be a great experience, not hurt a family. Nothing more important than a good wife and kids to come home to. Just my thoughts, but i hope it works out well for all. Good luck.

Contract on the fridge.

As Mike said, welcome to the board. We're a family here so I know I speak for many when I say we're here to help.

In MY case what we did was agree on a time limit per week. I agreed to not work more than 8 hours a week on the project. This 'contract' was signed by me, my wife and witnesses (neighbors). It was on the refrigerator with magnets for almost 6 years.

There were times I wanted to work more, of course, but didn't. It took a long time to finish but I think the compromise was fair. We have two small kids ourselves, and there at the end they were big enough to help, actually. You'd be amazed how much a 7-10 year old loves to use a pneumatic cleco gun ("Audrey, be a sweety and take those 200 clecos out of that wing skin.").

There were conflicts, of course, but they worked themselves out. When Susie was away visiting relatives (with the kids) I worked non-stop around the clock (with permission).

b,
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Mike S said:

Look for others in the area that are in a similar situation----homebuilders and small kids.

They may have found the answer, or you might be able to work together to trade kid time for plane building time-------

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I don't have many answers but like the above suggestion--My wife and I have 3 kids (6, 4 and 3) and have a RV-8 project taking up major real estate in our small garage. We live in Sugarhouse. I haven't been working on the kit for very long so I'm probably not much help on how to build an airplane, but maybe your husband and I can co-miserate on how we never get time to build and you and my wife can co-miserate on how much time we spend building. You guys are more than welcome to get in touch anytime: [email protected] or PM me and I'll give you a phone number.

The thing that has helped me the most in that regard has been doing as much work in the garage (and leaving room for my wife's car) as possible, NOT out at my home airport/hangar. This way I am a step away from the living room, not to mention the travel time back and forth to the airport. My wings and other parts are stored in my hangar, but I will stay working at home as long as I can. Hope this helps.

If you haven't done so yet, read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. I can't say I've read it, but my girl did and it really helped. I know it sounds really Oprah-ish, but what can I tell you? She learned that we men have a "cave" that we need to go in from time to time. I had no idea I even had a cave, but it turned out that it was in the garage (and also on my bike, of all places). I'm sure folks reading this are laughing at me, but she really did get some understanding from it, and passed some of it along to me.

Sounds alot like my first airplane. Two small kids and a third on the way and I was in the "intense" stage of finishing a fiberglass airplane.

I think the key is communication and balance. Talk it over and reach a compromise you both can live with. Limiting time is a great way. My wife and I set aside Friday as "date night". Aviation never encroached on Fridays and we still do it to this day 20 years later. I also set aside one day on the weekend as her day. She didn't always use it but I had to have her permission to do airplane work on that day. Otherwise the rest of the evenings were mine.

It wasn't always easy but we survived. It took awhile for my wife to understand that aviation was going to be a big part of my life, but not at the expense of her part of my life. Once she knew that I wasn't going to replace her for a pile of aluminum, she got more comfortable with the time I was spending in the garage.

Strange timing on this thread. My wife and I just had a talk last night about how little time we get to spend together. We don't have kids in the same sense as most, but our two dogs are our kids, and getting to know those words "personal" and "time" again has proven very difficult with the training she does with the dogs, and me with my 7. I'm at a pretty advanced stage as far as the airframe goes having just ordered the finish kit, and I did this with her blessing from the start. When I started, we had one "child", and she was just getting started in obedience training with him. Now we have two, and she is training all the time.

I am going to make some changes with how I go about working on the airplane once the finish kit gets here.

Not sure a signed contract will be the answer for us, but I intend to spend more time with her while she practices/trains with the dogs, and I'll build when time permits.

This is a major change in the way things have been over the last couple of years, but I won't let a project get in the way of what's been a wonderful marriage. The airplane will get done some day, and she knows it's important to me, but not as important as my family.

Being that your husband is still in the beginning stages of a 10, I think a weekly time schedule is a great idea, especially with three young children.

I don't know if all this writing was of any help at all, but know that there are plenty of us dealing with similar situations, and are doing fine, and will continue to do our best to do so.

Thanks for joining VAF to talk about a very important aspect of building an airplane!!

Time for a reality check

I'm going to go against the grain here. A largish family with all non-teenaged kids (read: need constant attention) is not a prime domestic situation for building an airplane. Yes, still it is done successfully. I built my -8 before our son was born and that was the perfect time to do it. Then, Skyler was born, and we started a -10. Hah! Fughedaboudit! My wife is a business owner, I work, we have huge commutes into town, and there just isn't the time left around activities, careers, and still trying to remain "close" on the rare date nights. So, plan B was to sell the -8 (done) and buy a nice, four place factory airplane (ack! also done). Long range plan is to build another RV (dirt simple RV-3 or 4) just for dad when my son is at that age when I'm not cool enough to be around anymore. There won't be any pressure to "get it done" to serve as the main family hauler, but merely as a toy with it's place on the 0-10 family importance scale of approximately a 2. Time spent on it will be purely random, with no due dates for anything. We live at an airpark so there is no time lost to/from the airport. The project would be right outside the kitchen door.

At this time, I personally could not justify the time spent with my head inside a pile of aluminum while my son takes his first steps or loses his first baby tooth (last week!). There is a time and place for everything, and building an airplane deserves total attention to detail at all times. I don't think I could be the dad I want to be AND build an RV-10 to a proper degree of refinement...at the same time. Maybe some guys can, but not me. "I do one thing at a time, I do it very well, then...I move on." (Major Winchester...M*A*S*H)

These are just my feelings on the matter here. Airplane building is a HUGE undertaking, but pales in comparison to raising happy, healthy, responsible children. Which is more important?

I started my -8 when single, but dating my wife. Building went at a steady pace with the only constraints being $$.

Getting married (just hit the 9yr anniversary, 21st) took time away and then kids (twins will be 4 in December) really put the brakes on. Almost forgot that 3 yrs ago we built a house on an airpark and moved so there is another delay.

So, Febuary will be the 10yr mark on the airplane and I am attempting to finally finish in May. Life is always a compromise, unless you were born a Hilton or Forbes. My wife is very supportive of my dream of owning/building an -8. I also love my wife and kids very much and know what my priorities are, my family. Kids grow so fast and will only 2 or 3 once. Currently I have one day every other week completely devoted to working on the airplane. When my friend/partner comes into town, I get to spend an extra day or two. I try an give my wife time alone with her hobbies/friends to be fair. A schedule is probably a good idea as she doesn't spend as much time for herself as she should. When I started I had this dream of finishing in a year. HA! I have now been thoroughly educated to be more realistic and will be happy if I can finish under 11. Just need to remember, if you keep working you will be finished, one day. I would much rather be happily married and flying an -8, then to be a selfish a$$ and be divorced and flying an -8. The airplane is never the real reason, if it isn't the airplane there will always be something else.

Best wishes and good luck,

1475Kittyhawk said:

My husband is building an RV-10. I knew when I married him he would own an airplane one day. Turns out he took the easy way out and decided to build one. I'm starting to wish he just threw more money at it and spent his time flying instead. Tail and empennage arrived in 2005, were completed, and have been in storage since early Spring 2007. Wings arrived shortly there after. The unexpected arrival of our third baby threw things a bit, and he's been on forced hiatus for over half a year. To make the situation worse, we moved, also unexpectedly, and his hanger has to be rebuilt. Hanger = our garage. It's become clear to me that the itch to rebuild said hanger and start up again is back. I'm only surprised that it has taken this long, and I'm not yet withholding support. To that end, I ask any of you in this situation: how does a young family survive building an RV-10? We have three kids age 3, 2, and almost 10 months. We both work. We have both forgotten what the words "personal" and "time" mean. And that doesn't even begin to touch on what we need to maintain a marriage. So how do I remain a loving, supportive wife of this RV-10 project given all that we already have going on in our lives? Does he put if off 5 years? Or does he accept that while our kids are this little, ANY time at all working on it is a gift (my preference)? Do we schedule hanger time? Do we set a timer? Is every single minute he spends on this project eventually reciprocal? We had a little scuffle this weekend. I hear about all the RV-X blogs that start off with "loving wife" and end up with "divorce." So, when your kids were little and life was uber-challenging, what was the compromise?

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Janet,

Your dilemma may not be caused by the RV-10 alone. Many, many young couples are working to support themselves these days and that doesn't leave much time for a personal life or the kids or to build an airplane.

You and your husband may have to set some priorities with regard to your time and it would seem the kids have a right to be first on the list after your time at work. The airplane may seem important but it is not as important as those little guys. It won't be much fun building or flying if they are without sufficient parenting time or being shuffled back and forth with joint custody.

Looking back some 40 years, I've made a few mistakes in life and could write a book about it. One of the things I hear from my grown kids (4 of them) these days, we didn't see much of you in those early years. I worked 2 jobs, built an airplane, while an ex-wife was off to college getting a masters degree. The airplane could have waited just a bit for their sake while all this was going on. It would not have saved the marriage but it would have been better for the kids.

There are no guarantees on how your kids will turn out in life, but giving them quality time when they are growing up sure won't harm them.

decisions decisions

i look at pictures of my son from when i started. i think to myself, man i should be spending more time with him. but how much is enough? we camp, hunt, go to ball games, movies, water ski, snow ski, scouts, soccer, on and on. everyone needs to take some for themselves. its not all about you,me or the kids. it about balance. get in where you fit in i say. it will just take longer.if you/he cant deal with that then rent for now. maybe he can build later. i find it difficult to see spending any amount of quality time with a 3 child family and building an airplane. if you like flying as much or nearly as much as he does then it can be done. if not he's really gonna have to work in short bursts.
i used to work til 10:00-11:00 at night now i quit at 6pm. i really love the time together with them.

It's all about sacrifices and in my case it's sleep. With a 2 and 5 yr old there's no way in **** I'm going to be in the shop every evening and on the weekends so I do it in the am when everyones asleep. Just about every morning I head out at 4am and work for awhile. On weekends same thing and I quit when the wife and kids get up around 8. Then we do "normal family" things. The other thing I've observed about the morning is there are very few if any distractions so it's easy to get things done. No visitors, birthday parties, appointments, nothing. I've managed to rack up over 900 hours so far this year and 95% of it was when everyone was sleeping. Not for everyone, but it's working so far for me.

No advise but things will work out

I don't have any advice but airplane projects can be completed, eventually. My wife has never been a big supporter of my RV4 project. She is my best friend and has always had her own full time career. I care very much what she thinks. My project started when our kids were about the age or yours. Then... life got busy. For many years the project was in storage. My children are young adults now and my spouse has grown to accept my still unfinished airplane. She even assisted me installing the wings two weekends ago. The first time she has help with construction.

I have included the first photo in my construction log. I'm holding one of my children on the first weekend of empennage assembly (early 1990's). The second photo is the same child in 2007. My airplane is still not done but I'm planning to complete in spring 2008. My wife wants me to fly her down to northern Calif. for some surfing lessons.

Things will work out.

Sincerely,

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No Dr. Phil here

Judging by the number of posts since your original post at one o'clock or so, it seems that you've struck a cord with many of us builders. Whether, one is building a 3 or a 10, I think there will always be that tug o' war, the balance between family/social life and build time. Very young family. Looking at the ages, I'd say a baby intercom and two productive evenings a week in the garage is only one way to tackle this (together). Good luck! Keep us posted how the build is going. As you know, it's an inspiration to many of us here at VAF. Oh, and welcome (post often!).

It's a huge time equation. I have a little guy myself who is almost 5, and I've been into my RV-7 for 5.5 years. At this stage, he likes a lot of time wth Mom, but we spend as much time as possible, even spending time in the shop with Dad doing what he can. He even got the hang of a a little deburring a couple weeks ago. Overall, I figured this was the time to do the project, but as he gets older, there's going to be bigger demands on time for a variety of sports/ Scouts/ school/ music/ or whatever the current activity is. By that time, he'll also be able to spend some quality time with Dad that most kids don't get to experience.

With only one munchkin, I'm having enough of a challange finding adequate time to finish my -7 between work, the wife, and the boy. I can't imagine what that would be like with 3 kids, and an even bigger project.

Jim

Perfect topic for a first post!

Howdy,

I've had exactly this situation on my mind for some time. I really want to start building a 7, but with two young kids (3 and 1), and being away from home 12 hours a day for work (long commute), it just hasn't been an option for the last year or so.

But, the stars have aligned, I've just given notice for at work (with an offer of a 2-day-a-week role come February). My wife (who has been hugely supportive of this flying passion of mine) wants two days a week "off" from the kids. So, I figure now I've got two days of "Mr Mom", two days in the office, one day for "family" and two days in the workshop. Now I just gotta get myself to a building workshop, clean the garage, and get my first orders in!

Back on topic, I personally couldn't tackle a project like this unless I could first commit to my wife and kids. This is for me though, not a judgement or suggestion to anyone else.

Alexis O.
Perth, Australia.

Just feel lucky.....

Nope, I am not Oprah nor Dr. Phil. However, I sure wanted kids as badly as anyone. While I have a step-daughter that's great, at the 'end of the day', she is still not "mine". Try as I may, kids just weren't in the cards for me and my wife (2nd wife).

So, I really can't chime in with any knowledgable advice other than be extremely thankful for the kids, and the plane building will take shape whenever the time is right.

On a side-note, even without kids (OK, we have a Labradoodle that might as well be a child ), my -9 has been derailed for almost 2.5 years now. We moved, bought a home that needed major remodeling, etc. I put the house before the project, but the time is near to where I can start building something again...Even though I started the -9, I am torn between something I can use more often (re: fly to the ranch where we hunt) which is some form of a Super Cub kit. Heck, it's either a -9 or the Cub. When Doug and his 4-5 ship convoy keeps buzzing my house, the decision continually gets tougher!

Best of luck to you and your family, and welcome to the VAF community!

Hang in There....

1475Kittyhawk said:

My husband is building an RV-10. I knew when I married him he would own an airplane one day.

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Communication is the KEY, believe me. My marriage had problems and I myself took on to many projects such as working on the RV, remoldeling the house, car projects, my day job, you name it. Yes I made some mistakes along the way after I got married. My projects were nothing compared to building an RV and my RV was 95% done and flyable when I got married. After I got married the RV had some engine problems which required an overhaul and a host of other things. The wife did not like me working on it one bit, but she wanted it done, so I slaved away to get it finished, but it was to late. I'm single now and the RV is done. We both made some mistakes with our marriage and I learned alot from it. In other words, I married the wrong lady.

Hope the best and keep the marriage strong and be supportive to each other and keep good communication.

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My kit was originally delivered in 1989. I am the second owner and not owned it that long. The kit was basically untouched when I bought it. There have been many changes in my life that has back burnered the project. You know what, that's OK. I think it will fly in 2008. 19 years after it was first purchased. If you wait that long you will probably be empty nesters with kids in college and maybe some grandkids. I have never had any regrets building. It will get done some day when life allows me to finish.

Aaron.

Family comes first.....

Much like Doug, we had an agreement in our family. I could work as much as I wanted, but it had to be outside of family time. I had (wanted) to coach baseball and basketball. I had to pick the kids up at the theatre at night. But, when 10pm rolled around, the night was all mine! Most of my RV-9A was built between 10pm and 2am. I am lucky to only need 5 hours of sleep a night, but it can be done.

I did my best to include the kids:


There is an interesting ding on the bottom of one wing - wonder where it came from?


Is the building area heated? The kids spent lots of time with me in the "airplane factory" reading out loud or asking home work questions if I got out to the garage early. My wife would come out and have discussions while I worked - not all building is loud riveting. Might be tougher with the very little one, but soon the oldest could hang with Dad in the hangar.

We survived and now the whole family talks about how they built "The Plane". Hang in there, talk, and set and enforce some rules.

I wish you the best of luck!

I think every pot has its lid. There has to be compatability in a marriage. If the wife or husband is self centered ,I dont believe a plane build could ever work under any circumstance.
Many of you mention balance, and I do agree, but there still has to be 100% support in the project from the spouse.

I know of several "want to be builders" with possesive and snappy wives. These guys could never build. No matter what.

So my advice is be realistic to your level/type of relationship. If its capable of supporting a airplane build then go for it. But remember there still has to be balance , and let your spouse know how special they are .
Kids, well that goes without saying, they need your time and attention.
So give them enough and they wont mind you building.

farming?

Grow up on a farm and you just except the reality of it. Hard work is good to teach, and good for the kids.
My dad built model airplanes, had a garden, worked with wood, had a wood lathe, table saw, planner, fixed the tractor, cars, ,,,, Duaa...... Now I build airplanes, 30 RVs, fix my cars,,,,, have built 100s of RC models, boats, worked in jobs that required me to know about equipment of all kinds. I am 61, almost done for, it has been a good run. If he was a stock broker I would have some knowlege of that? maby?
IF you are a DAD and have a passion for perryrinkels, RVs or stamps, stocks, bonds, or airplanes??? share it with your kids and they will soak up what ever you are interested in, and make their own lives richer because of you.

This talk of "It can't be done" or I can't,build a RV ,,for this or that is bunk. Can't never could.

Positive I can do it thoughts are the way... go for it

It's not about the RV

My heart goes out to you. I know - It's hard to have a spouse with the itch! That said, I don't believe that it's about the RV. Many men are into spending their whole Saturday on the golf course or watching hours of football with the guys. It can be hard on the family and it can be especially hard on the wife if he's not getting the balance right.

It sounds like your husband is sensitive to the needs of your family. He's taken 6 months off of the project so you can all transition into your life with a new baby and home. Now he wants back in and that must be scary for you to consider that he may not be as available as he's been recently.

There are a couple of things that have worked for us. The first is that the shop is in our basement garage, which means that although my husband is working on the RV, he's at home. It's allowed him to work at odd hours and for short bursts of time. He'll grab 20 or 30 mintues here and there. I think he feels like he's able to keep at it regularly, even if he's not making a whole lot of progress in any one session. There have been drawbacks, though. Like in the early days when he'd forget to turn off the air compressor at the end of the night. Not a lot of fun when the sound of it sat me straight up in bed at 3am!

But just knowing that he is downstairs and would come up if needed has helped. Unfortunately, he'll probably be moving into a hangar in the next 12 months or so and as we don't live too close to an airport we'll have to readjust to new routines. I assume that we'll not be seeing as much of him and we're already starting to discuss how we'll handle this new phase of the project.

The other thing that has helped *a lot* is that he really does try to get the balance right with us. He makes it clear that although the project is important to him, the family comes first. I know that this is where his heart is so when he doesn't get it right, it's easier to let it go than to get angry.

And there will be times when they don't get it right. It's an all-consuming passion in many ways and I can see how easy it is for him to get lost in it. The interesting thing for me is that I almost never get irritated by the time he spends in the shop. I'm usually more annoyed when he spends hours behind the computer reading up on RV building or surfing the forums... and ignores me when I'm trying to talk to him!

Keeping everything together at this stage of your life is challenging. But don't blame the project. It's something he undoubtedly loves and feels passionate about and that's a good thing! The important thing is that he does his best to balance out the priorities and that you don't allow your resentment to build up. Communicate with him *a lot* about your needs before you start to get pissed off. Do the date night thing as often as you can and whatever you do, don't let the relationship between yourself and your husband take third or even fourth place to the RV, your kids, your jobs and everything else going on in your life. If you keep your marriage strong, you'll figure everything else out, including how to build an RV with a young family.

Good luck to you!

Ellen

Family first!

Remember family first! My project is almost last on the list but if I take care of my family they are glad to give me time to work on the project and now that my kids are older 8 and 12 they and my wife help. I started the project in 1994!!! I built my first airplane in 2 year before I got marred and before kids. This one has taken longer but I have missed nothing with my kids. At the same time my wife has supported the time and expense along the way. Will be flying spring 08. Kids are only little once and time is the most valuble commodity you can give them. Time spent with kids will save you in the long run. Your kids will be well rounded, have more friends and be a better friend, better grades in school and help more around the house. My kids meet me at the door to this day with the biggest smile and a worm hug. I currently work 40 hours per week (job) and put about 15 hours on the RV much of the time early in the morning when the kids and wife are asleep. When the kids were born I put the project on hold for the first three year on each child. ( I will never regret where I spent my time.)

We've Discussed This...

Sarah and I have discussed this as I get closer and closer towards starting my project. We're very much on our feet, but haven't been for long. We're a young couple (22 with a 20 month old, Alex), and the thought of a serious financial burden worries both of us (although her much more so than me).

For time management, I watch Alex during the day, and work from home. I tend to have quite a bit of time during the day, as I prefer to work late at night, but time during the day is primarily spent keeping Alex entertained. Sarah is generally gone from about 7:45 AM to 6:45 PM, which means that she doesn't get much time with Al during the week. When she gets home, she generally takes over hanging out with Alex, and then we spend time together once she goes to bed.

The lack of time together during the week dictates that they spend tons of one-on-one time together on the weekends. This leaves two pretty much full days for building. I am beginning to learn to utilize my time during the day to allow my nights to be spent out in the shop, also. Sarah is gaining interest in the project slowly, as she was completely anti-airplane months ago. Now that she has taken some time to learn about the process, check out some airplanes, etc., she's more open to what it will add to our family's life. We're both going for our first RV flights on Sunday (with Dan Landry), so that should seal the deal.

As for the financial burden of building, we have discussed how we are going to handle it. Effectively, I will be using money I earn on the side for the project. I work full-time (from home), which, combined with her income, easily covers our expenses, and leaves us each with ample spending money. I plan to use a portion of the "extra" money from my full-time position, as well as all of the income from my (frequent) side projects to fund the project.

We've also discussed why I am not just waiting to build. There are a variety of reasons. One, a -10 doesn't make sense right now, as it is just too expensive for us. I am building now, because I want to be able to bring Alex along on short hops (car seat mounted in the baggage, if it ends up being possible/safe), and I'd like to open up my business options when she goes to school. When Alex goes off to kindergarten, I'd love to be able to make day trips in the airplane, and be back in time to pick her up. Being able to meet with clients that would require 3-4 hours drives now, and be back in time to meet her at the bus, would really improve my relationships with the people I work with, work for, or need to meet from time to time.

In an ideal world, I'd break my butt to finish the airplane as soon as possible, so we can go "exploring" for some time before Alex is off to school. I'm not sure it'd be possible, given how long a build takes, but I am going to try. I feel like an airplane will open up tons of opportunities to visit family (I have my grandparents in NC, and Sarah's whole family is in VA). If I can make the "Alex in the back" scenario work, I've got no problem shipping our "supplies" (luggage, kid stuff, etc.) to our destination. I just want to do something interesting as a family.

As for your situation, while right now might not be the time to build, I think it is extremely important to only go through with it if you want to do it as a family. Many times, daddy ends up building, and everyone enjoys it as a family when it is done. I see no problem with this. However, if everyone despises the project, and resents the time spent working on it, the end reward just isn't worth it.

Basically, if everyone isn't convinced that the juice is worth the squeeze, it may not be right for you.

Mike

We have 3 young children who were 4, 4, and 7 when I started my plane. When it first came, all I wanted to do was be in the shop working. When I wasn't working on it, I was thinking about it. After about 6 weeks of this my wife, who was very supportive of my project, sat me down and said this wouldn't work. I knew she was right, and I got my priorities staight; family, work, and then the airplane came a distant 3rd. I still worked on it on a regular basis, often up at 4 am to work a bit before getting everybody up and heading to work, and finished it about 2 years ago. It was a bit easier for me because older kids can get involved and spend some time with you in the shop. Also, my wife would sometimes grab a drink and snack after the kids were in bed and say "let's go out to the shop for a while". She would sit while I did some work and we had some wonderful talks and time together (We even found a use for the sheet of memory foam before it was cut up and upholstered for the seats ). With younger kids and infants, I think his making much progress on the project for the next couple of years might be overly optimistic. It's all a matter of compromise, setting priorities, and being creative.

Hi

Hi Steve,
Kindly check your private message box,

Regards,

Building an RV10 is like building 1.5 RVXXs. This is a huge task and takes many hours. If you are not in a rush to finish, work on it when you can and try to enjoy the build. Realistically it will take many years to complete at the present rate, if that is ok, continue. Otherwise best to admit that the time is not right and maybe look at selling the project and getting into a pre-owned RV.

If you figure 2500 hours for first timers to do a slow build RV10 and you average only 5 hours per week, every week, it will take almost 10 years to get it done!

Some of us have the money and no time, others the time and no money to build.

When the build stretches out too long, sometimes life has changed so much that the airplane does not fit in any more, sometimes it might fit in better though too as the kids leave home!

A brother of a friend took so long to finish his 4 place kit which he had planned fly his wife and two kids around in, now his kids have kids! The desire to finish it is now gone. Few kits which take over 10 years to build are completed by the original purchaser from what I've seen. It is hard to keep at any one project for that length of time with all the other distractions of modern life.

I started my -8 only seven years ago when my little girl was two. My bride and I agreed to a few rules:
1) No working overtime in order to afford the plane...family time is more important than the $$$
2) No assumption of debt to finance the plane.
3) She only has to say one word and I will put down the tools. She does not need to explain anything to me...all she has to do is say the magic word. We chose the word "uncle" for our code word. She has only used it a few times in seven years.
Seven years later, my little toddler has grown up quite a bit and is hounding me to get the plane done so that we can go flying and eat pancakes on the weekends. My wife is still on board, and I help out with the household chores to keep her happy. We just spent the new car fund on an engine, so she was willing to hang onto her Caravan for a few more years in order to speed things up with the project...I am a lucky man!

tinman said:

I am a lucky man!

Click to expand...

Amen to that.

We are just starting, and I have been concerned about the family impact. I think doing as much building at home will help and I built a shop for that purpose. My wife has been supportive but not enthusiastic. When it came time to dimple the first skin, I asked my wife to come help me unsure of how she would react. She came reluctantly and she levered the dimple machine while I positioned the skin. It was a nice morning. We talked a lot while we did it and in the end had a nice time together. Later I was watching a video of a hammer type dimpler and called my wife over to look. Her comment surprised me. She said "I'm glad WE don't have that kind" The WE warmed my heart. Her name is Evie. My reserved registration is N104EV.
I have twin 16 year old daughters at home. I had one help me cleco one night and now the other one is bugging me to help. I'm sure there will be stressful times but with family first, I'm sure it can work.

A man only has to keep one person in his life happy--his wife.
She is the gate keeper to the children, the finances, the schedule and the "other" joys in our lives. A wise man will nurture that spirit and everything else will fall gently into place.

Don't let anyone put a time schedule on completion of the plane and you won't have to worry about losing time with the family. We waste so much time in our lives watching tv, surfing the net, sleeping late, etc. that we can always squeeze a few hours a week for a project that doesn't take time from those that are important in our lives. However if your husband is the type, you may have to negotiate a set amount of time per week.

Patience everyone patience.

When I started my plane my kids were 14, 10 and 8 years old, I am not done yet, though I typically do something on it every week, and a lot more lately.

There is a text that I like

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. (wanting=lacking)

I did not post this to be preachy or upset anyone, I think its great and funny at the same time.

Did you notice, Patience is given a female attribute!

We put Family first, and now that 2 of my kids are out of the house, my wife tells me.... "Honey I can drive Nathan to his Civil Air Patrol meeting and you can get some more done on the plane."

She's just some kind of wonderful, yes she is.

I hope we all remember that the only things that have to be done, are to be done. When you do all things decently and in order you will have done well.

For aspirations, change the "ifs" to "whens" an things seem probable instead of possible

Best wishes young family, dream together, someday you will fly together!

Your husband may need that shop time, just like you might need a little personal time for whatever keeps your head on straight. For a lot of guys, the shop is the only place in the whole crazy world where (1) they have complete control, and (2) they can be alone to think. These are not small issues.

Both of you try to remember the current situation is really only temporary in the big scheme of things. All young professionals are in a pressure cooker, and all new parents feel a bit overwhelmed. It gets easier. Right now you have a house full of babies and a huge job to satisfy their needs. Before you know it they feed themselves and take their own bath. In the blink of an eye they start asking for the car keys. Another blink and you hope they will come home for the holidays. Through all of it remember you got married for life...and this is life.

I really hope the kids will enjoy working in the shop with their dad when they get a little older. Playtime is soon forgotten. Things you build with your dad stick forever.

If it was easy, would you value it?

If she needs me, I go. The first time I came in bleeding from a scrape (pulled the arm out of the horizontal stab a bit too fast), she learned not to ring for triviality, and I learned to not show up needing first aid.

We achieved balance in a few days of using the doorbell - I put a button in the house and the bell in the garage.
We found the nonverbal call signal helped a lot, and I have to ALWAYS answer the call.

If it was easy, would you value it?

Thank you for starting this thread. It feels like I've been living the other half of your situation, with just the two kids. It is not my intent to criticize, just to try to explain what's working for us, and as far as I understand it, why.

I started building with one four-year-old girl and a 10-year-old marriage.
Little kids are pretty intense. I didn't realize how much my parents were making up as they went along.

Our marriage goes in phases - everything clicks well for a while, then there is a time of friction. We're still learning about each other, and both seem to keep learning. It's never been easy or natural - we've both had to work at the marriage. When it's going very well, we relax and don't work quite as hard - thus the friction. I attended the 60th anniversary party for an aunt and uncle about a year after we were married - I got each alone and asked the burning question; they both independently said that the key to staying married was "after about a year I figured out that I couldn't win an argument with <insert the other's name>".

I often play outside with the kids in an odd manner, in the summer time.
A chain link fence gate protects the open garage from kicked balls (mostly), and allows verbal communication while I work on the project. If I hear "Cool Dad Come See" or other request, I go play for a while.

The kids are now 4 and 8, we're married 13 years, and I've been very happy to have them help with airplane building. One of the 8yo's friends can't wait until he can come over and help again. In the winter time, we will work for a while, take a short break, then go sledding on a hill in the neighbourhood park. Home for hot chocolate, and some more airplane work or other household project while the kids play. The kids work short periods, and get to play lots. They colour pictures of the airplane, each trying to outdo the other's crazy colouring. Then they tease me about them. I pay the kids in M&Ms, about 1 per 2 minutes of productive time.

My wife has not and will likely not ever be much help on the build, but she realizes that I'm happier with lots to do, and a project on the go. Before the airplane it was woodworking. She knows women whose husbands golf, fish, watch sports, or drink too much, all to extreme. When she gets to thinking how crappy it is that I'm out in the garage for a couple hours here and there, she thinks about that. She often feels overwhelmed by the magnitude of the project, and the cost, but I've also caught her talking about it/me to her friends much more positively.

When she rings the doorbell button I put inside the back door of the house, it sounds in the garage. And I get kissed, or cookies, or coffee. Or come running to spell her off with a stinky diaper, or whatever. We found that this started hardly any fights, compared to storming out and yelling "get in here" at me.

She knows that she can push that button any time, but I'm expecting trouble or a reward. One day she's going to work up the courage to ask one of the local RV-4 guys for a ride.

The Kids:
The kids weren't much help until they could stand on a stool and not throw rivets everywhere (about 3 for the first kid, 4 for the second). I am starting to use the kids more wisely - big daddy hands and little rivets are slow.
Little kid hands and little rivets are fast. I used three kids to put stiffeners and rivets onto the rudder and elevator skins - took them a few minutes. I'd spend half an hour on one side of the rudder, they (and a few M&Ms later) did the other half of the rudder and two elevators in the same time I'd used.
And got bragging rights, and something to tell about at school, and to be the only kids that knew the airplane parts when airplanes came up at school.
"That's not the tail, that's the vertical stabilizer!" is pretty stunning for a pre-school teacher, apparently.

The kids have helped dimple (DRDT-2 quiet dimpler), and are getting good at loading clecos into pliers for installation. I have two cleco pliers that they alternate loading and handing to me. Takes a lot of time out of the process, and costs me a few more M&Ms ("helper treats").

We take breaks when we finish a line, we count clecos, holes, rivets, add, subtract, spell, and learn a bit about life while we work. Stuff you can't talk about easily face to face is easily communicated while working together, it seems. I run all of the power tools, and I purchased hearing and eye protection that fits the kids (from Lee Valley Tools). The kids are learning shop safety, and how to use some simple hand tools. It may seem mundane to an adult, but it's a pretty big treat for them.

Building with Dad:
Some of my most treasured memories of my father are of us building something together. I hope my kids remember me that way too.

Mental Health:
I also get work in after 10 pm some nights, if I'm not feeling too sleepy. Sleepy and power tools is a bad idea. I don't drill any holes when tired, any more. The shipping for replacement parts was eating me up.

When I've had a rough time at work, or just taken another shot from the universe, my wife has learned to send me to the shop to build a little, or out for some skydives, or out flying - I come home once again smiling like the man she married.

I hope that this helps somebody. It's helped me. Thanks again for starting the topic.

Good luck to you in your life.

Wow!

Just an excerpt:

rv8eh said:

Building with Dad:
Some of my most treasured memories of my father are of us building something together. I hope my kids remember me that way too.

Click to expand...

Howard,

Thanks for a fantastic post! Best wishes for the successful completion of the construction of your kids....and your -8A.

Thanks Howard!

Howard,
That was a great post! I really enjoyed reading it.

Mark

My wife's viewpoint

I don't bug my wife with stuff from the lists or forums much, but since I mentioned her, I sent her a copy of my earlier post. As always, she had something to say

From Howard' s wife:

While my mother was living and before the "**$#**--AIRPLANE--**&^%$##" I was talking to her about Howard' s work habits; mostly how he just seems to work all the time. "Now, dear wouldn' t you rather he want to do things? "He is ambitious, a real smart guy. Imagine if he didn' t want to do?"

It is important to set limits as with golfing, fishing, watching sports, drinking. These activities are all ok until you go to the extreme. Howard has always made sure that there is money left over for me to pursue my own interests and meet my own needs. The time thing was an issue for awhile as he would want to work on the plane in addition to the crazy hours he was putting in at work. Taking the kids and giving me a break at the same time has been marvelous! I get a break, Dad gets to build and the kids get quality "Dad" time. It really does work well.

-Helena

So, Janet (Kittyhawk), hopefully you have been following this thread.

Any thoughts/conclusions ??

Thanks for your personal stories

Thanks to everyone for their two cents on building families while building airplanes. I composed a long final thought, but it really doesn't belong here. Rather, it belongs to my husband, so I will keep it for him.

We had a kid-free night out recently. It was a fantastically pleasant, unrushed evening, spent holiday shopping and topped off with our favorite sushi dinner. So rarely do we seem to be able to break away from our lives to actually talk to each other, that we savored it for a long time.

The sentiment that resonates over an over in your messages appears to be the resounding need for communication. We're not very good at it to begin with, so learning how to get better at it, raise a family, and stay on the same page while we build an airplane, will take some doing. But I can see that it's possible, and well worth the effort. He'll end up with an airplane, and we'll both have a stronger marriage. No, I won't log 5000 hours on my road bike for every hour he logs on the -10, but if we work it right, I might look like I do.

We've worked on our relationship in subtle ways this week, and so far, it's been a great week. No, the hanger lights aren't all up yet, but three of them are. And maybe by tomorrow, all five of them will be. The next night might be my night to start holiday baking, but perhaps the following evening, he'll draw up plans to pull 220 out to the garage...

Give and take. Communicate.

The hard part will be remembering what we just learned so we don't have to do this all over again.

Thanks again,

Kittyhawk
-10
wings
slow build

Kittyhawk. Thanks for the response.

I had wondered if you were still out there.

A nice final message, that. Might be good to print it out, and stick the copy out in the aircraft factory.

Just in case you loose sight of the sentiment in your last few lines.

Good luck.

Hey Kittyhawk

Thanks for the sweet finish.

Some of our clearest communication comes at a sushi place on date night, too.

Good luck.

Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands

I highly recommend "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" for insights into having a great marriage.

Nucleus

I don't know if you have read this but it was written by Tim Olsen's wife. They have two girls.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/why/wifesperspective.html

My wife and I don't have kids so I won't even try to contribute or understand.
All I can say is that when completed, it is most fun we have together.

While building, every Friday night was date night. We stuck to it pretty good.

Look forward to flying in formation with you in the future.