Required inspections, by whom, when?

All, I'm looking for the definitive answers on a couple of questions:

What has to be inspected on my aircraft as construction progresses? (closing wings, etc)

By whom must these inspections be conducted?

How much of a problem will having my tanks built by Evan Johnson be, assuming a slow build emp and wings, QB fuse? I think I'm going to be way good on hours

Point me in the right direction, please. I'd also like to hear how YOU did it, and any lessons learned - good, bad, ugly. Thanks,

Rick 90432
L wing jigged/drilled/disassembled(for debur, dimple/alodine or prime), R wing main spar in jig - before I was rudely interrupted by knee reconstruction surgery. Grrr. Another couple of days before I can get down to the shop . . .

Tech Counselor

Rick,

Call a tech counselor (EAA) and they will help you out. I am planning on 5 visits from them. You will have them visit before you close up anything. They are there to help you if they see any problems.

Good luck,

Hi Rick,

While Tech counselor visits are an excellent idea, as are visits by other builders and any mechanics that you might know, none are actually required any more for licensing purposes. You get the project checked by a DAR when it is finished, and the FAA is happy with that.

Paul

I don't know about insurance now, but I recall that first flight insurance seemed to be interested in some in process inspections by others six years ago when I was inquiring.

They aren't required, BUT

EAA recommends that you get at least 3 in process inspections from either a technical counselor or an experienced builder. Your DAR will be more comfortable if you can show evidence of these inspections. If you use a technical counselor, the inspection gets recorded at EAA Headquarters. In the past, insurance companies have refused first flight coverage without these inspections. Don't know if that is still the case.

What the FAA says....

This is the FAA's position... clearly spelt out.

This is what the FAA says in AC 20-27E...

8. DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.

a. Many individuals who wish to build their own aircraft have little or no experience with respect to aeronautical practices, workmanship, or design. One source for advice in such matters is the EAA (see appendix 1 of this AC). The EAA is an organization established for the purpose of promoting aviation safety, construction of amateur-built aircraft, and providing technical advice and assistance to its members. The EAA has implemented the Technical Counselors Program to assist in ensuring the safety and dependability of amateur-built aircraft. EAA Technical Counselors are sometimes available to visit an amateurbuilt aircraft project and offer constructive advice regarding workmanship to EAA members. The EAA has advised the FAA that it will not provide technical assistance to the builder in designing an aircraft.

b. Amateur builders have adopted a practice of calling upon persons having expertise with aircraft construction techniques to inspect particular components (e.g., wing assemblies, fuselages, etc.) prior to covering, and to conduct other inspections as necessary. Those persons include EAA Technical Counselors, persons with aviation design and/or engineering experience, mechanics with aircraft, airframe, and powerplant experience, and other aircraft builders. This practice has proven to be an effective means of ensuring construction integrity and an acceptable level of safety.

I recommend the EAA TC program, and it's free - but pizza and drinks are always appreciated...
But I'm also biased, being a TC....

The Advisory Circular quoted is available on-line and is worth reading.

If no TCs are in your area, a friendly A&P can provide a second set of eyes before you close up assemblies.

Good luck finding a tech counsellor and better luck getting one if you are not at an airport. I spent a year trying and all I got was disgruntled ex TC's and now ex EAA members to tell me their stories on the phone.

There are several good tech counselors in the DFW area. We have three VERY active TCs in Chapter 168. I've done a lot of inspections in the DFW area including Ft Worth, Denton, McKinney, Greenville, etc. If I have to go 30 miles or so, I appreciate a little gas money, but I can usually find the time.

who, me? Disgruntled?

I'm one of the disgruntled category of Tech Counselors. I freely admit it. Fill out the form, send in to EAA, then what do they actually DO with it? I mean an RV is an RV. The only time I ever saw things go even slightly awry is well down the road, when it's wiring, systems and FWF time. By then, most builders I visited early on had studied up, learned a ton on their own, and were already fairly well technically versed in their own life histories so as to not need me to hold their hand. Most any question they could ever come up with was answered simply via phone or email. Fill out another form for that? No thanks, I have enough paperwork in my life.

An initial visit during tail kit assembly to mostly allay the new builder's fears of that one ugly rivet's chances of crashing their airplane someday is all they ever need. Well, I get them over it, tell them what Van's tech support tells them...JUST BUILD THE PLANE and stop obsessing! It's not a watch you're building. Once they have a level set, they move on, and before I know it, they're posting first flight on this forum. Multiple TC visits needed to get them there? I just haven't seen the need.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE visiting and talking with airplane builders, checking out new panel gadgets and "gee, I like how you wired that and routed that cable". I just don't see the need anymore to get formal about it. My insurance company (Nationair) had no care whatsoever about tech help during the build of my airplane. They just wanted to know I had 5 hrs. dual training in an RV and that was it. Airworthiness is for the FAA to decide.

The TC program is great in spirit, but we're not dealing with one-off, plain sheet of paper aircraft designs here. In this type of scenario, then absolutely yes, I would suggest all the help you can get! The RV is so hard (practically impossible I would wager with matched hole kits), to screw up during construction so badly as to be unsafe. Just let me check your deburring and riveting abilities, then call me when you're mounting systems and engine if things get confusing. Even then, there are so many wonderful webpages out there that cover every fine detail of these tasks as to render almost anything I could say moot.

I may be missing the point of the program in general, but it just never seemed to be a value added effort to either party. Maybe it's my general distaste for anything resembling a bureaucracy. (Funded by $15 brats at Airvulture.) Back in the day, Avemco offered insurance premium discounts for verified TC visits. That went away before I finished my airplane. Even so, the quote I received from them was horrid. Nationair won the day and has ever since.

Just my rant. Worth what you paid for it. Now keep your AC 43.13 Accepted Practices Book close at hand and GO BUILD THE PLANE.

Brian Denk said:

An initial visit during tail kit assembly to mostly allay the new builder's fears of that one ugly rivet's chances of crashing their airplane someday is all they ever need. Well, I get them over it, tell them what Van's tech support tells them...JUST BUILD THE PLANE and stop obsessing! It's not a watch you're building. Once they have a level set, they move on, and before I know it, they're posting first flight on this forum. Multiple TC visits needed to get them there? I just haven't seen the need.

Click to expand...

Careful. Some builders need a lot more than just that. We're talking about a garage-built tin can that is going to be transporting their loved ones. Some people don't just "rest assured" that there's tons of margin for error. And if those builders want somebody to help confirm that their workmanship is acceptable and that their choices won't have consequences, then they ought to get that help. So please don't discourage those folks from doing so.

Brian Denk said:

I'm one of the disgruntled category of Tech Counselors. I freely admit it. Fill out the form, send in to EAA, then what do they actually DO with it?......

Click to expand...

Brian,

Actually, the EAA assembles the information you provide into a computerized database. Over time, problem areas become clearer and as such, greater emphasis can be focused on dealing with them. Among other things, the Technical Counselor program is meant to spread the knowledge gained by building an airplane so that the knowledge is not lost. According to the EAA, the completion rate has always been dismal, estimated at one time to be 15-1. Certainly Van's advanced designs have reduced that number, but experimentals cover a lot more ground than just those within the RV community. Even today, according to the EAA, many more projects are abandoned than actually fly. As TC's we get to share our knowledge with builders of other designs as well. My most recent visit was on a Zenith 601, its older builder finally inspired to commit to a LSA project after flying in my RV....the first experimental he ever set foot in.

We all have a personal style. Some TC's adopt a laissez-faire attitude. The problem I see with that approach is a matter of degree. You really cannot know how far a given builder will push limits of safety thinking design overkill will erase his shortcomings. Personally, I tend to not downplay what I consider to be defects. Sometimes its a fine line I walk....keeping my mouth shut knowing an assembly is acceptable yet could be done better or taking it to the next level and advising that something should be addressed.

All builders come into this game with a certain degree of skill. I can usually tell less than 3 minutes into a visit if the builder I am dealing with has a grasp of what he is doing or not. Not every builder is a craftsman. To date, I've seen first hand two experimentals (not RV's) that were banned by the owner of my small airport because they were so poorly constructed that to this day I still cannot understand how they managed to get an airworthiness certificate in the first place.

Recently, a fellow EAA chapter member came to my house to borrow a compression tester. I said "While you are here...how about a TC visit?" He happily obliged and as a result, another document was submitted to the EAA's database, hopefully for the ultimate benefit of all experimental aircraft enthusiasts, RV builders or not.

to the question

I received my 1st inspection after the HS and prior to the vert stab.
Intend to have next one prior to closing the bottom of the wings (getting close). Will continue TC inspections untill aloft.
Glad there are inspectors and EAA TC program. Wise eyes.

T.S.
7A QB(so I must be 49% done)

I've been a TC for a while. RV's are easy projects for a long list of reasons. My experience has been a lot like another mentioned here; most RV builders gain a little confidence and I don't hear much from them. That's fine. I want them to call as much as it takes to get a safe airplane....be it once or ten times.

Frankly, RV-related TC calls are usually not as much fun as others. There is not as much teaching, and not as much variation in craftsmanship. That's good; a consistent result is desirable. The others are more interesting because, well, you never know what to expect. Last week I stopped a guy who was ordering new control pushrod material for a lightplane amphib rebuild....in 5052-0. Glad I caught that before they got into the airplane. On the flip side I have a builder who is finishing up a Falco, and (no credit to me) he's gonna do real well at OSH when he gets there.

Like was stated, you don't need TCs for the pink slip, but Falcon Insurance gave me first flight full coverage because I had an EAA TC inspect my plane and did the flight advisor program as well. You need both to qualify for the coverage from Falcon. It's very relaxing to know if something goes wrong, you are fully covered. I flew my SeaRey naked and it made me very nervous. You have enough to think about, so don't add lack of insurance worries.

Roberta

Roberta!!!!

robertahegy said:

I flew my SeaRey naked and it made me very nervous.
Roberta

Click to expand...

Wasn't that a bit cold in Wisconsin?!?!?

I fly naked and it makes MY NEIGHBORS nervous. (Airpark).

HAH! Roberta, you just HAD to know you'd rile up the boys with that one.

I was covered from first flight without any build inspections by Nationair. Maybe that's changed over the past few years. A LOT changed after 911.

I'm very much a supporter of getting help, either in person or email or phone, when you need help building an airplane. I just lost interest in staying active in the TC program when every inspection I did showed the same thing...pretty much nothing. The care and attention to detail shown by the local builders was stunning and I simply had nothing to say on the report.

I would like to have received something in the form of processed data from EAA showing what to be on the lookout for...."we are seeing a trend in lack of safety wiring skills, or proper bolt orientations, or torque specs, or...."

Something like that. It probably existed but nothing sent to me via email or postcard to say hey, this is what you, the TC's are showing us from out in the field.

Ok enough of my post-rant, rant.

I'm very much a supporter of getting help, either in person or email or phone, when you need help building an airplane. I just lost interest in staying active in the TC program when every inspection I did showed the same thing...pretty much nothing. The care and attention to detail shown by the local builders was stunning and I simply had nothing to say on the report.

Click to expand...

Brian, I can empathize with your statement. While I am not discouraged with my duties as an EAA Tech Counselor, the general level of workmanship I see is outstanding.

I've seen my role shifting from that of catching errors (I still look for them but they are very rare) to being a morale booster for a builder who is up to his armpits in the project that just needs to hear somebody he respects say "You're doing a great job and you are going to have a beautiful plane!". Most of my visits deal not with how to properly set a rivet but discussions such as pros/cons of multiple avionics buses, where to mount the (fill in the blank), how to paint this thing, and my highest priority, making sure there are no gotchas in the fuel and oil systems.

The Tech Counselor visits have been enjoyable and I think still valuable even in this age of nearly standardized custom planes. The workmanship bar has been raised dramatically since I started my project in 1997 and often approaches the quality we see in the street rod community.

TC's

I called a TC after I had finished my Empennage. Later than I had originally planned but called none the less. He found 4 rivets missing that I had completely overlooked . Kinda gave me a jolt. Yup, I'll call again. That second set of eyes along with the days/weeks/months/years??? of experience he has, has given ME a greater feeling of ease.

On the other hand, there are several builders in my area (within an hour by car) that have built the same exact kit. These people have been invaluable as well. Then there is this wonderful forum - thanks DR - so if the TC's were to vanish, I'd still call upon "The Experienced Ones".

All in all, the more eyes that look at my work, the better I'll feel. Whether the individual is a TC or not, and if those "report(s)" that the TC makes and files will help me (or not) later remains to be seen. The thing is, if all I get is a slight drop in my insurance costs from the existence of those reports - It'll be worth every penny I paid.

It was April, but it was kinda warm. I was too excited to worry about being cold. The neighbors took a lot of pics. Oddly, though, my first flight as an official test pilot was on Good Friday the 13th, April 2001. Thaaat made me nervous, too! But insurance on that plane was over 7K. It was either the plane or me that would be nekked.

Roberta