Home > VansAirForceForums

-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV Building Tips/Techniques
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-05-2019, 05:56 PM
avatty avatty is offline
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 47
Default Any Experience With Substructure Dimple Dies on Wings?

Does anyone have experience with using substructure dimple dies on the wing ribs (and standard on the skins)? I am wondering if this would help reduce the slight oil canning that is visible on some RV wings. The threads I have seen on this website discuss substructure dimple dies in terms of strength of the resulting joint, not the "tightening" effect these dies might or might not have on the skins.

Thanks in advance to anyone with experience to share!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 06:15 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 674

My wing ribs were dimpled with the Cleaveland substructure dimple dies.

During skin fitting, I had some problems with oil canning on the wing bottoms.
When the wing riveting was completed, no oil canning. Did the substructure dimple dies help? I'm not sure. I believe the riveting pattern I used was probably more helpful in preventing oil canning rather than the dimple die influence.

That being said, I was pleased with the way the skins fit the ribs..I have very smooth skins and no oil canning
Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Sliding canopy mostly completed 10/2020
Wiring completed
Avionics harness build in progress
Donated for 2021 and so should you
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 09:28 AM
avatty avatty is offline
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 47

Thank you for the response, it sounds like the difference the dies might make is marginal, but no one has said it is a bad idea.

The -14 plans advise riveting the IB and OB wing skins from the center of each toward the root and tip, and riveting the lap joint last. Back-riveting is also suggested for "a higher quality skin finish." Any thoughts? And again, thanks!
Walnut Creek, CA
RV-14 slow-build - finishing kit in progress
1949 Cessna 140A - IRAN'd 2017
Dues paid for 2021
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 11:52 AM
avatty avatty is offline
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 47

Getting back after assembling the right outboard leading edge, using the substructure dimple dies resulted in an incremental, but noticeable, improvement in rivet flushness and a flatter finish to the skins. Or so said my peer group at the airport (of course I noticed it too).

Someone with more experience (this is my first project) perhaps could get the same or better results with conventional dies, but it definitely took my results up a notch.

Because the substructure dies make deeper dimples, and increase the size of the holes in the ribs, I found it necessary to use: (1) rivets a half size longer - 3-4 instead of 3-3.5 most of the work; and (2) hard packing tape instead of the soft office tape I usually use.

On the scale of things, I put the substructure dimple dies almost on a par with tungsten bucking bars, which I will only give up "when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."
Walnut Creek, CA
RV-14 slow-build - finishing kit in progress
1949 Cessna 140A - IRAN'd 2017
Dues paid for 2021
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 01:44 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,568

My testing in 2014,
Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
CPL & IFR rated
EVO F1 Rocket 1000 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1 Rockets
RV14 Tail dragger

Fairlea Field
St.Thomas, Ontario Canada, CYQS

Last edited by Tom Martin : 02-17-2019 at 01:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:12 PM
N804RV's Avatar
N804RV N804RV is offline
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mount Vernon, Wa
Posts: 743

I tried 'em. Didn't like them. They enlarged the hole to the point the clecos would fall out. To prevent rivet 'clinching', I made a couple of #40 size tabs to hold the clecos firm for riveting. But, after that first attempted, I just quit using the SS dimple dies.
Ken W.
Mount Vernon, WA
2020 VAF Supporter
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:30 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 4,391
Default Dies

I used the dies as follows.
Skin...Standard die
Layer two (ribs)...Tank die
Layer three...Substructure die
The layers seemed to nest much tighter. The substructure dies were not used all that often.
The only time I had issue with clekos was using Clekolock. Wedgelock clekos held the sandwich just fine.
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 01/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
Empennage, wings, fuse, finishing kit, now FWF
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 PM.

The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.