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Flying for business?

N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
I took my plane to visit a remote site, turning a four hour drive into a sub-one hour flight. My boss, the president of the company was fully supportive of this and realized what a great tool my plane is.

Our owners, not so much. They just asked me to sign a document saying I will not travel on company business using my plane.

My boss is looking for some loophole for me and / or justification to use the plane.

What have others done? Named the company on your policies, had your spouse sign a release? Etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
For one thing, I don't talk about it. I just get to the destination.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago where the company boilerplate prohibited GA although the company owned a pair of jets for the cheeses. Go figure.

My VP approved of my flying so for his benefit, I just did not advertise.
 
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We have (or had) a company policy that does not reimburse travel expenses for personal aircraft. There doesn't seem to be anything that prohibits it.

But I plan to do it when I finish building. I hope it won't raise eyebrows when I expense miles to destination and also rent a car at the destination. ;)
 
I was able to convince my boss, a few years ago, to let me use my own airplane when traveling for company business. However, I was managing the Corp. Flight Dept. for the company at the time. The company had a policy prohibiting the use of personal aircraft, but my boss (senior executive) approved it for me and for the other company pilots. We were reimbursed the normal mileage rate to and from the destination and tiedown or hangar fees.
This led to other employees, on an individual approval basis, being allowed to use personal airplanes as well. Individuals had to be instrument rated and current, and have the company shown on insurance as a named insured, as I recall.
 
Don't ask, don't tell - if there's no policy on hand prohibiting personal airplane travel. If you want to fly, be sure to also check your company life, AD&D and health insurance details.
 
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I work for a university (state government) and there is a specific policy allowing the use of personal aircraft for official business. I did a couple of flights on business and eventually this trickled up to the higher levels of the university. So, even though there is a specific policy in place sanctioning the use of personal aircraft, I was told that I was no longer allowed to use my airplane on university business, and could not claim reimbursement for travel costs. In fact, I was told that I would get in trouble even if I used my plane on my nickel to do university business. Apparently there was someone in the dark past that caused some problems (no idea what or when), thus I am paying the price. So I just don't travel any more on university business unless its local.

Greg
 
If you go to the GSA website (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715), you will see that the current reimbursement rate for privately owned aircraft is $1.31 per mile. Since the website does not specify what kind of miles, I always use statute. Flying along at 200mph while thinking about $262/hour reimbursement does wonders for that "RV Grin". I have only worked for one company that was happy to reimburse me at that rate. For all other employers, I submit mileage as though I drove. For companies that knew I was using my plane for business (and not all did), I often submitted mileage and taxi receipts and never had a problem. If you are not sure how your company will react, I strongly suggest you submit mileage as though you drove and be happy you were able to fly during the week!

Good luck,
 
If You Signed an Agreement, You're Done

Bill:
I suspect that circumventing an agreement that you signed would result in the death sentence, unless you first convince the owners that the benefits of you flying your plane outweighs the liability/risk that they perceive.
My former employer recognized the benefits of me flying, so they added me as a named insured on the company's aviation insurance. To keep others (not full time pilots) from jumping on the bandwagon, the flight department set minimum requirements of executive approval, over 1,000 hours PIC, 500 actual instrument, and also required recurrent/sim training every year. My flying was done in a very well equipped C-210T.
In my present position, I sometimes use my 9A for business trips, but it's a much smaller business and there are no reporting considerations. Sounds like the people you work for have such great concerns that they want your promise and personal guarantee that you won't put them at risk. Please make sure if they green light your activity, they provide a written statement rescinding your agreement.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
terrykohler said:
Bill:
I suspect that circumventing an agreement that you signed would result in the death sentence, unless you first convince the owners that the benefits of you flying your plane outweighs the liability/risk that they perceive.
My former employer recognized the benefits of me flying, so they added me as a named insured on the company's aviation insurance. To keep others (not full time pilots) from jumping on the bandwagon, the flight department set minimum requirements of executive approval, over 1,000 hours PIC, 500 actual instrument, and also required recurrent/sim training every year. My flying was done in a very well equipped C-210T.
In my present position, I sometimes use my 9A for business trips, but it's a much smaller business and there are no reporting considerations. Sounds like the people you work for have such great concerns that they want your promise and personal guarantee that you won't put them at risk. Please make sure if they green light your activity, they provide a written statement rescinding your agreement.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Click to expand...

!!! 500 Actual instrument !!!. Holy smokes, that either takes a bazillion normal hrs or some pretty inventive documentation!
 
Here's the thing, my boss, the CEO wants me to take the plane because it saves me so much time. He is holding the do not fly letter until we come up with a solution.

Listing them on the policy and meeting certain requirements may be the way to go. Say 1000 hours and day VFR only.

What's funny is that I could ride a motorcycle there and they wouldn't say a word.
 
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The Whole Point Was to Stop Others from Even Thinking About It

rzbill said:
!!! 500 Actual instrument !!!. Holy smokes, that either takes a bazillion normal hrs or some pretty inventive documentation!
Click to expand...

At the time, the company had 1,000+ employees and I was the only one flying, other than the full time corporate pilots.

During my tenure, I once had to secure an H1B Visa extension for one of my staff (he was from China). I had to advertise his position locally and in Chicago to see if I could find someone else with his qualifications. The ad called for an individual with a masters in metallurgy, familiar with Swiss built high speed forging presses, with verbal and written mastery in mandarin. I didn't receive any applications, and he was able to stay.
Terry
 
my sad tale

When I started working we were allowed to fly on business trips. But then one pilot - you know the type, "The rules don't apply to me, I can do what I want to do" - had the odds catch up with him. He had a totally at fault, multiple fatalities, multiple millions of dollars, accident while on business travel. Although it died a slow and painful death, that was essentially the end of flying on business. And whar could we tell the risk manager? It can never happen? One thoughtless pilot ruined it for everyone else.
 
Hey Bill---I assume you are more productive using your plane, versus spending alot of time sitting behind he wheel of a car, OR sitting in a security line at an airport. I would think they would welcome the fact that you do have your own plane, and CAN fly it to see customers.
Tom
 
If you check the footnote on the GSA site, it specifies the reimbursement rate is for statute miles. It even gives you the factor to convert nautical to statute.
 
I was able to fly myself on business for about 3 years or so while working for a big company, with the company's knowledge and permission. The corporate aviation department heard about it and stirred up the attorneys and they put out a policy prohibiting it.

I tried the "don't tell" approach later at another company but never felt good about it because I knew if it came up they would not like it so I stopped doing it.

The company I am at now allows it, and it is great because we work in a lot of small towns, most of which were within 30 minutes of a general aviation airport.

AOPA has some good information on this including ways to reduce the risk to the employer and pilot.
 
Interesting topic. My question:

Can you insure an aircraft certified in the EXPERIMENTAL category for BUSINESS PURPOSES?
 
TomVal said:
Interesting topic. My question:

Can you insure an aircraft certified in the EXPERIMENTAL category for BUSINESS PURPOSES?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what an insurance company would say, but... business purpose doesn't necessarily mean commercial.

Commercial:
Hey, I need you to fly down to Kxyz tomorrow.

Business:
Hey, I need you to be in Megametropolis-town tomorrow.
OK. Hmm, I think I'll take my RV7.
 
Yes, perfectly legal to fly the plane to get to wherever you are doing the business. Not legal to fly for compensation.
 
No way

I work for a BIG corporation and it is forbidden, no questions. Liability concerns for passengers, people on the ground and the pilots estate. Some pilots in the company do it on the down-low but they risk immediate dismissal if they get caught.

When I worked for a small company where the owner was a pilot, he was all for it, just had me get a high dollar liability policy to protect the company.

If you have the CEO with you, there may be a shot. Question is, who do the lawyers work for? That is who will probably make the decision.

Good luck Bill
 
Most insurance covers the plane for use in business. Most do not cover commercial use. And don't get your fractions mixed up if you split costs. It must be equally shared.
Does your company have a chain of command that is articulated Bill?
Your boss says fly. Who cares what his boss says? You report to your boss.
On the other hand, if they don't tell the workers comp insurance people that you fly... they may not cover your injuries to the extent needed.
It is a most unfortunate and slippery slope... mostly created by attorneys, trials and payouts.
 
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Back in the 1980s I flew my Mooney extensively on business for two different major manufacturers. NBAA had a suggested flying policy that was based on one developed by Corning Glass Corp. I used that template for each corporation. Reimbursement was based on equivalent airfare and I think I had to add the corporation as an additional named insured. Obviously things are different today!

I just checked the NBAA website and see they still have some information for justifying the use of personal aircraft, but it looks like the sample policy is no longer available. Here is a link:

http://www.nbaa.org/admin/policies/airplane-for-business/

Jim Butcher
 
Dean Pichon said:
If you go to the GSA website (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715), you will see that the current reimbursement rate for privately owned aircraft is $1.31 per mile. Since the website does not specify what kind of miles, I always use statute. Flying along at 200mph while thinking about $262/hour reimbursement does wonders for that "RV Grin". I have only worked for one company that was happy to reimburse me at that rate. For all other employers, I submit mileage as though I drove. For companies that knew I was using my plane for business (and not all did), I often submitted mileage and taxi receipts and never had a problem. If you are not sure how your company will react, I strongly suggest you submit mileage as though you drove and be happy you were able to fly during the week!

Good luck,
Click to expand...

The GSA site you linked to applies only to Federal Employees. Private companies can use the data, make it greater/less or simply decide against it completely. Private company policy determines what kind of business travel they accept.

I recently retired from the federal government and my last two managers authorized me to fly my airplane on several official trips. Prior to that none of my managers would approve it. It basically boils down to what the "big boss" feels is most effective for that trip.

flightlogic said:
It is a most unfortunate and slippery slope... mostly created by attorneys, trials and payouts.
Click to expand...

Oh so true.

:cool:
 
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Greg Arehart said:
Yes, perfectly legal to fly the plane to get to wherever you are doing the business. Not legal to fly for compensation.
Click to expand...

Not true. You cannot take passengers for compensation. Flying for Team AeroDynamics is done for compensation and the $1.31/mile tax deduction as well as other business expenses gave me nearly $20,000 in tax deductions last year!
 
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I would suggest getting your company to buy a plane for you to fly so you do not have to put hours on your own. Then they can insure it to their satisfaction.
 
Our company says we can't fly GA for work, at all. They also say that we can't get paid for travel that we do outside our scheduled working hours.

The pilots at work all argued that it's absurd that I can get a motorcycle learners permit and ride a dirt bike 200 miles in the rain, but a retired F-4, T-38 IP and U-2 pilot who then retired from delta can't fly his freshly restored Citabria, his cub or his DA-40 on a CAVU day....

We lost...
 
gtmule said:
The pilots at work all argued that it's absurd that I can get a motorcycle learners permit and ride a dirt bike 200 miles in the rain, but a retired F-4, T-38 IP and U-2 pilot who then retired from delta can't fly his freshly restored Citabria, his cub or his DA-40 on a CAVU day....
We lost...
Click to expand...

Easy to understand why so many corporate folks identify with Dilbert.
 
gtmule said:
The pilots at work all argued that it's absurd that I can get a motorcycle learners permit and ride a dirt bike 200 miles in the rain, but a retired F-4, T-38 IP and U-2 pilot who then retired from delta can't fly his freshly restored Citabria, his cub or his DA-40 on a CAVU day....

We lost...
Click to expand...

Well, of course. Everyone knows motorcycles get hit by cars, but airplanes suddenly drop from the sky and land in a ball of fire in a schoolyard. They can stall at any time, and that makes them crash. Sigh...
 
gtmule said:
Our company says we can't fly GA for work, at all. They also say that we can't get paid for travel that we do outside our scheduled working hours.

The pilots at work all argued that it's absurd that I can get a motorcycle learners permit and ride a dirt bike 200 miles in the rain, but a retired F-4, T-38 IP and U-2 pilot who then retired from delta can't fly his freshly restored Citabria, his cub or his DA-40 on a CAVU day....

We lost...
Click to expand...
Thank a lawyer.
 
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