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Alaska, without Canada. Legal?

M

mikerkba

Well Known Member
I'm planning a trip to Alaska for next May or June. Is there any reason one cannot overfly Canada totally, and omit the passenger preclearance/customs/fees stuff. A route from Bellingham, Washington, to Ketchikan, AK is 518 nm direct, and is 551 nm via recent ATC filed routes (per Foreflight).

Of course, you could be vulnerable to an unexpected stop, and winds can lengthen that trip. Right now, foreflight shows a 37 knot headwind at 9,000 and 51 knots headwind at 15,000. This yields 36 and 41 gallon fuel burns, respectively, for my 7A which carries 50+ gallons useable. Presumably, May or June winds, carefully selected for departure time, would make the trip well within range of most RVs.

So, leaving aside for the moment the good operational and routing advice you have, what is the legality of giving the USCS/CBP/DHS/NavCanada bureaucracy the ....., lets say, "brushoff," and simply overflying our neighbor to the north?
 
As long as you don't land in Canada I am pretty sure you are good to go. No need to go through customs, but I would use flight following so there are no surprises when you land in the US.

My experience having flown from Nebraska to Vermont / Maine and crossed Canadian Airspace both ways is I just contacted Canada after leaving US flight following. They were more than helpful and accommodating, eh! Basically, US ATC turned me over to VFR squawking 1200 as I entered Canadian airspace. I then contacted Canada and stayed with them until they handed me back over to US ATC. Piece of cake.

If you land be prepared to go through customs in Canada, and when you "return" to the US. Best to have all documentation ready, just in case. Weather could force you to land also. Hugging the coast fog and weather is a real possibility.
 
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Geico266 said:
As long as you don't land in Canada I am pretty sure you are good to go. No need to go through customs, but I would use flight following so there are no surprises when you land in the US.

.....
Click to expand...

Is there any Flight Following in that area of Canada?

There wasn't much in the Rockies...:)
 
Overflights - and more paperwork.

Larry: Thanks. I, too, fly over a piece of Canada on the way westward over Cleveland going to Detroit, and this Bellingham to Ketchikan flight seems the same from a regulatory angle. Wasn't sure.

I carry the one page, downloadable Transport Canada form that we are supposed to have in our plane to take it over Canada, even if not landing foreign. No fee, no formalities-- apparently it serves only to remind you of the requirements of flying your experimental in Canada. I have no idea what the enforcement mechanism or penalty is.

See: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...nce-regsdocs-standardised_validation-2946.htm
 
Altitude is our friend.

az_gila said:
Is there any Flight Following in that area of Canada?

There wasn't much in the Rockies...:)
Click to expand...

Just fly higher, Gil. There is flight following over much of the mountain west, but you frequently have to be above 15K. At 12.5 or higher here in Ely. FYI: the canadian government site suggests that there is prety good rada coverage along the western routes up to AK, and an air-to-air frequency recommended for the whole route, and mandatory is some areas.

I do think a VFR flight plan and flight following would smooth the arrival, particularly if you choose NOT to use a port of entry airport, which I also don't think you'd have to use.

God help the bandit that greets me with an M-16 after landing somewhere. I don't care where that is, DC, Bellingham, or Ely, it ain't right. It could get ugly.
 
The coastal route up to Ketchikan is nothing to take lightly. If you go VFR, you'll be going through areas where there is no weather reporting at all. Going IFR will put you at altitudes where icing is a very real concern. I've flown the BC coast for 11 years in Dehavilland Beavers, and currently fly Seattle to SE Alaska in Lears. It is not something I'd want to try nonstop in an RV.
 
EAPIS

I would really check the EAPIS rules! I pretty sure you have to tell them you are leaving and arriving back at a specified point.
 
Mike, I've been planning and dreaming essentially the same route to Alaska when my plane is done. I have lived in Alaska and have family there. I have been through Ketchikan and Juneau on various occasions. The weather in May might be a little iffy as it is still early in the season. June and July is the best time with a lot more stable air mass. The winds will be a lot calmer than they are now. Pulling back the power to sightsee will give you plenty of range. The biggest concern will be fog and low ceilings on other than stellar days. Just allow for idle days waiting for weather to improve and you wont be disappointed. There is a lot more risk in this route compared to the Canadian routes. Although, its just as risky as flying to the Bahama's I suppose. I have noticed that the Canadian ADIZ is directly in line between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan. Might have to dogleg a little if you dont have the 12 inch numbers. I do have a question for other's that have overflown Canadian airspace. Do they still charge you for talking to them? Good luck and post a trip report if you do make the trip.
 
SmilingJack said:
check the EAPIS rules
Click to expand...

"...private aircraft APIS regulations do not apply to overflights of foreign airspace, provided the private aircraft departs and arrives in the U.S. and does not land at a foreign port...." (http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov...facilities/apis/apis_guide.ctt/apis_guide.pdf)

The last I knew, you do have to file a flight plan and indicate "overflight" in the remarks section. If you do have to make an unplanned stop, things could become complex in a hurry.
 
Yes, it's legal

We just made this flight this past summer.... IFR from Ketchikan to Olympia, WA nonstop. No need to file EAPIS or deal with Customs. There is actually a airport just south of Vancouver on Friday Harbor, so you could depart from there or land there and cut quite a bit off of the trip, too. Flight time in the RV-10 with a small tail wind was right at 3:30 all the way to Olympia, so it would cut off about 35-40 minutes landing at Friday Harbor. We were on top the entire way at 7000' and then 9000' for MEA's. It was pretty cool to see the granite cumulus sticking up through the cloud layer.
Vic
 
I live in Anchorage and fly around Alaska. Flying here is a lot different than flying in the lower 48. It's a pretty remote stretch of real estate coming up the west coast. Personally, I wouldn't do it in any single engine plane no matter how reliable I felt it was. I'd rather deal with the Canadian customs. It's not a big deal to stop in Canada. I've done it a few times. It's a beautiful and much less risky ride, IMO. You could fly through Banff National Park. It's one of the prettiest places I've ever seen. If you get in to trouble out there on the west coast, you could be a long ways from help and that water is very cold. The weather proves time and time again to be very hard to predict up here. I'd fly up into Dawson Creek in BC and then follow the Alaska Highway up. Even that is extremely remote. Get away from the highway and run into an issue, and you are in some serious, life-threatening trouble. More than likely, you'd fly up the west coast and not run into any problems and you'd have a great time. But you're riding in a single engine machine built by the hand of man. If you had a problem, you'd regret it instantly.

Which ever way you go, whether it be up the west coast or through Canada, get yourself a personal locator beacon (PLB) and keep it on your person when you go fly. I never go flying without mine. It's a lot better than a regular old ELT. One of these things saved a friend of mine's life recently. The one I have is like the one I linked below. It's $500. $500 for your life. In Alaska, it may be the only way anybody ever finds you. You can be far enough from anywhere that nobody will ever hear your ELT. I hear people talk about the dangers of flying in Colorado. They've never flown in Alaska. Flying in Colorado is for sissies. Excellent pilots die here all the time. There have been a few separate fatal incidents in the past year on the stretch up the west coast. In the lower 48, you can crash in most places and limp to help if you survive. Here, you may survive the crash and die of exposure. Even in the summer. I would evaluate the risks involved with flying here, very carefully and definitely get yourself a PLB.
http://www.rei.com/product/804323/acr-electronics-sarlink-view-406-personal-locator-beacon

b48db1cb-7d4d-4e99-8e67-777d81e4e554.jpg
 
My experience with flying down the coast on my return from Yukon in 2010 was that below about 11k (CYSQ - CZST - CYXT - CYBL - KCLM), there is little radio contact with either flight following or weather. I flew this on a CAVU day and it was spectacular, but as already noted, there's not many options should the fan quit, and it would be even uglier if there's low cloud or fog.

Greg
 
KC10Chief,

How's it going? Funny meeting you here. :)

To the original poster:

Alaska is dangerous. And that part of Alaska is the most dangerous. People just don't fly over that part of the country at lower altitudes in any frequency. Because of that the weather reporting is going to be dicy and it can change in a second.

Personally, I think that if you are an IFR rated pilot and you trust your life to your airplane then it can be done and people do it, but this is not something that I would even consider flying VFR. So many things can go wrong and if they do, help will be several hours away if at all.

If you can fly through Canada (eh?) then do it.

All of these things said, I do plan on flying this route at some point because I can't insure my airplane in Alaska and I can't fly it through Canada without insurance, but I'll only do it once, I'll be prepared to hang out in KTN for however long I need, I'll be extremely picky about weather, I'll be IFR rated, I'll have floats, a PLB, and good survival gear onboard. I'll probably give myself 2 weeks to pass through Southeast and be prepared to through more time at it if needed to get good weather.

Once my airplane hits Seattle it will get insured and it will probably never fly that route again.

schu
 
Flight

Having flown to the Bahamas around a 100 times I would say it would be nothing like it I could likely survive in the water for a while in that water just a matter of minutes.
 
A few years ago a fellow force landed on Vancouver Island, British Columbia while enroute Alaska to Washington State. The reason was low fuel. He put down on a logging road at Jordan River on the west coast of the island. He was unaware that he was only 20 nm from Victoria International (CYYJ), how could he, he had no maps.
To complicate things more, he had several weapons on board which were quickly confiscated.
Make sure you have all your ducks in line.
Cheers, Hugh
 
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