How Do YOU Make Decisions About Major RV Purchases?

There's been a lot of discussion lately about "Which is the best EFIS", or "Which is the best Engine Monitor" - and while I've followed these threads closely since these are things I need to buy soon, these are subjective questions, and generally result in somewhat subjective but well-intentioned responses explaining why one builder selected what (s)he did.

With the mesmerizing array of product possibilities in the marketplace now (especially for avionics), and the high cost for many of these items, it would really hurt to make the wrong decision and have to change something out later on. In other words, these are complex decisions with significant consequences for me and I think for most homebuilders.

So my question is, how do YOU make decisions about major purchases for your RV?

Being an engineer and analytical thinker, I tend to make spreadsheets of all salient features and benefits of all competing products. Then I make lists of the pros and cons of each, taking into account things like time in business, reputation in the marketplace, value, warrantee, etc, and then I weight each of these depending on how important it is to me. Finally, I score each product on a 1-10 scale for each of the weighted items. This all computes out to a score for each competing product. For those who might not be familar, this is called a Pugh Matrix or Decision Chart. I have made several life-changing decisions with this method, like whether to change jobs and move 1800 miles away, etc.(I know, I know, where's the spontaneity ).

All of this is a HUGE effort, and takes LOTS of time to research. I know there must be others out there that make complex decisions in similar fashion, and I think it would make sense for us to share resources and pool our efforts.

My specific problem at hand now is whether to keep the EI MVP-50 engine monitor that came with my substantially complete RV-7A or whether to abandon it in favor of something else. It came with all probes and was a very good value (read: I got it cheap ). SO, does anybody else have a recent spreadsheet or matrix with engine monitor information they'd be willing to share?

Highest Regards,

Noah Forden
RV-7A Finishing
Saunderstown, RI

Noah,
I like your analytical thinking. One thing you mention, but I don't think you emphasized enough is "what these features mean to me!" A good example is my Garmin 296. Actually I liked my old GPS-195 better, but I wanted "obstacles". These were not available on the 195. All the additional features are actually a negative to me. They just add clutter and make the unit not as user friendly. I'm willing to put up with the "extra features" to get obstacles, but it was a difficult decision.

Mel said:

All the additional features are actually a negative to me. They just add clutter and make the unit not as user friendly.

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Mel--------a loud AMEN to that.

It seems that way too many things in the modern electron-a-fried world fall into this trap. Take cell phones for example.

The way techies think is way different than the way a lot of users think, specially if the user is a half century or more old.

Probably a generation gap thing........................

Noah said:

This all computes out to a score for each competing product. For those who might not be familar, this is called a Pugh Matrix or Decision Chart. I have made several life-changing decisions with this method, like whether to change jobs and move 1800 miles away, etc.(I know, I know, where's the spontaneity ).

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Noah,

I do exactly the same thing. My choices aren't always correct, but at least there's logic behind them.

Mike S said:

Mel--------a loud AMEN to that.

It seems that way too many things in the modern electron-a-fried world fall into this trap. Take cell phones for example.

The way techies think is way different than the way a lot of users think, specially if the user is a half century or more old.

Probably a generation gap thing........................

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Speaking of cell phones...You've hit on another of my pet peeves. Can anyone tell me where to get a cell phone that is just a phone? And one that will ring instead of playing an irritating song?

As an engineer myself, I pretty much do the same things - matrix the available units and then list their attributes. Actually, I make a list of all my requirements first, and then add columns for things over and above those requirements. The more I am planning on spending, the more formal the process might get, but a lot of times, I just do it in my head.

The bottom line for me is to decide what I want the widget to do, and then find all those that will do that and down-select from there. I don't look for stuff that does a lot more than I need! (I realized while looking at all the new EFIS Synthetic Vision stuff at OSH that I am probably never going to fly a single engine airplane into conditions where I really need Synthetic Vision to complete the flight....cool, yes, but necessary? Not for my flying!).

Hey, until you spend the money, the time you spend on the selection process is free!

Paul

Cellphone

Mel said:

Speaking of cell phones...You've hit on another of my pet peeves. Can anyone tell me where to get a cell phone that is just a phone? And one that will ring instead of playing an irritating song?

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http://www.jitterbug.com/

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

I got all my answers at Sun-n-fun. Besides the initial choice of the -10 everything was picked out from three different trips to Sun-N-Fun. Oshkosh would work also. At either of these two places you can meet the vendors and other RV pilots and discuss and see all the different options.

Mel said:

Noah,
I like your analytical thinking. One thing you mention, but I don't think you emphasized enough is "what these features mean to me!" A good example is my Garmin 296. Actually I liked my old GPS-195 better, but I wanted "obstacles". These were not available on the 195. All the additional features are actually a negative to me. They just add clutter and make the unit not as user friendly. I'm willing to put up with the "extra features" to get obstacles, but it was a difficult decision.

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I'm a mountain terrain junkie, and advocate of improved technology to help prevent flight into terrain accidents....

I had (still have) the Garmin 195 too, but really prefer the terrain/obstacles & "color" of my 296. And I hear that the 496 has improved screen resolution over the 296.

Keeping in mind that terrain and terrain warnings are not usually used for VFR; we seem to have many flight into terrain accidents around here, somewhere in the transition from an IFR flight plan to VFR (to land at an untowered airport), or just sudden unintentional IMC situations (whiteouts, darkness, clouds & darkness).....with a mountain in the path.

Or as in one situation a few years ago; of not checking the sectional to notice a 10,000'+ mountain while flying along at 8500' msl before activating an inflight IFR flight plan. This being an IFR instruction flight of course, on a moonless night. Happily, the two pilots hit a ridge line at tree top level, and survived, thanks to working cell phones, and the cushioning of deep snow.

And as mentioned in the previous paragraph, as a visual backup, the terrain features of a 296/296/496 are perfect for IFR flights, not to mention satellite uplinked weather on the 396/496!

L.Adamson

Really simple and fast.

I cut all the pictures I can find out of my flying magazines, tape them to a special wall in the living room and throw a handfull of darts at them (blind fold of course). After that I look at what I've hit and base my choice on affordabilty and looks. Werks fer me everytime. NR.

Rivethead said:

I cut all the pictures I can find out of my flying magazines, tape them to a special wall in the living room and throw a handfull of darts at them (blind fold of course). After that I look at what I've hit and base my choice on affordabilty and looks. Werks fer me everytime. NR.

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I've also used the Ouija Board or rolling dice. For the Dart Game to be effective, I always buy darts at $100 each(placed in the build fund). Only put pictures up of stuff you can afford.

Be careful of the objective answer

Noah said:

Being an engineer and analytical thinker, I tend to make spreadsheets of all salient features and benefits of all competing products. Then I make lists of the pros and cons of each, taking into account things like time in business, reputation in the marketplace, value, warrantee, etc, and then I weight each of these depending on how important it is to me. Finally, I score each product on a 1-10 scale for each of the weighted items. This all computes out to a score for each competing product.

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Noah
I to am and engineer. A bit different than most in that the majority of my work is subjective based with objective data used only when it supports my subjective evaluations.

Those spreadsheets are nice and all, but comparing only the specs doesn't really tell you much about the function of the equipment. Two things may have the same specs but when it comes to using them one may be far superior. Just because some new EFIS out specs a Dynon or a Blue Mountain and costs 75% as much, doesn't make it any good. (No EFIS was used in this example)

When I was looking for equipment I found that talking to people that have built and flown an RV are your best source for what you will actually need. I was lucky that I had a few RV's around me and one guy especially that helped with those decisions.

Most of the things I purchased by just looking at the specs and not listening to others are now on my replace list.

Cam

Mel said:

Speaking of cell phones...You've hit on another of my pet peeves. Can anyone tell me where to get a cell phone that is just a phone? And one that will ring instead of playing an irritating song?

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Don't even get me started here!

We had to print out special instruction at work for some of our cell phones. They keep automatically going into "airplane mode" and none of us can ever remember how to get it out. ARGGGGGGGGG.

Now we have the added problem that nearly any phone out there has a camera in it. Am I the only one that can't bring a camera to work?? I end up getting stuck with the lousiest, crappiest phones imaginable just so I can find one without a camera.

What ever you buy will be obsolete before you fly

If the analitical matrix approach does it for you then that is what you should use. It is finally an airplane and you should put in it what you need if there is an economic concern and what you want if there isn't. Company performance and longevity are important. Some of these things will not work properly and support after the purchase and the months or years of elapsed time before you subject them to the ultimate test is very important.

Another thing that is important is compatibility. When you get the drawings and pinouts with power and signal requirements, different manufacturers have different standards and styles of naming and documentation. Parallel interfaces, serial formats and protocols have options that need to be dealt with and the same manufacturer will tent to select the same options of start bits, stop bits, sync bits etc. I have not seen any multiplexing I/O but someone could jump on a 1553 data bus capability. YOU have to design your system and you will need to integrate all of the vendor data into your cohesive schematics and installation drawings and complete your system integration and test.

I determined the system I needed and then determined the components necessary to implement it. If I didn't think it was necessary for my mission it did not go into the design. If it didn't fit within the space available or was to heavy or was from a vendor I didn't trust it didn't go in. I used no matrices in my development.

In spite of my effort, two of my avonic vendors were out of business before I flew the plane, the supposedly designed for RV exhaust system was not compatible with the cowl and nearly burned it up, the engine manufacturer installed an electronic ignition system for Van's and drop shipped it to me with a test cell run data sheet saying everything was fine when in fact the timing was off by 60 degrees or more.

Bob Axsom

jcoloccia said:

Am I the only one that can't bring a camera to work?? I end up getting stuck with the lousiest, crappiest phones imaginable just so I can find one without a camera.

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Count me in that category. I love the look the salesperson has when you ask for the phone without cameras.

Life cycle cost. Simple operation. Reliability and failure consequences in flight. Ergonomically sensible. Mature design with years of market history. Conformance to industry standards. Workmanship. Those are some criteria I apply to big and small purchases.

Which for me means that anything involving microprocessors has to have something really outstanding about it to give up, as most do, conformance to the above criteria.

EFISs for example: They bring virtually no new information to the party that isn't, or hasn't, been accessible to the pilot of six-pack analog and clock dial panels for decades. I'll bet a gyro half of the existing manufacturers won't be around five years from now, and the designs are not stable. Yet I have a D-10A, primarily because of MEMs replacing mechanical gyros that beat themselves to death. I have two P-mags, replacing mechanical mags having high life cycle cost and lesser fuel efficiency. And I've had trouble with both EFIS and ignition, so you pays your money and takes your choice.

What I dread more than anything is getting caught in an endless cycle of upgrades and obsolescence of "glass" (a la computer software and cell phones). So for an engine monitor, JPI's EDM-700 or EI's UBG-16 are what I buy. The engine functions these don't cover get analog gauges. Aggregated engine info cost less this way than a single all-your-eggs-in-one-basket glass monitor.

Bottom line-ish: After meeting functional requirements, it's reliability, peace of mind, and freedom from fiddling that drive my decisions.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

Mel said:

Speaking of cell phones...You've hit on another of my pet peeves. Can anyone tell me where to get a cell phone that is just a phone? And one that will ring instead of playing an irritating song?

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I use an LG model AX4270, a simple little phone that is just a phone, small, just right, and it has a decent ringer sound available. Comes with a 1000 mAH Lithium Ion battery that lasts about 3 days.