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Insurance?

I've been quoted $1470/year for insurance on my RV-4...full coverage whether in motion or parked in the hangar, and liability. I've ALSO been quoted about $885/year for the same coverage, except ONLY WHILE NOT IN MOTION. I keep asking myself: "If I'm the shop and repairman, why am I carrying full coverage?". Do most pilots opt for the "Not In Motion" coverage? Any thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated!
 
I cannot imagine why you'd carry "not in motion" only... if vast majority of mishaps happen while aircraft is moving..
 
Hi Steve...

...Would you be willing to self-insure? That's what this sounds like....you're willing to eat any in-motion loss, which quite a few guys do, by the way.

On the other hand, where would your family be if you went into someone's house and killed yourself? The 1 million I carry might help but with the current litigious attitudes in the country....??

Regards,
 
I've been quoted $1470/year for insurance on my RV-4...full coverage whether in motion or parked in the hangar, and liability. I've ALSO been quoted about $885/year for the same coverage, except ONLY WHILE NOT IN MOTION. I keep asking myself: "If I'm the shop and repairman, why am I carrying full coverage?". Do most pilots opt for the "Not In Motion" coverage? Any thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated!

I have had GNIM (ground, not in motion) coverage on my RV-6 for nine years. This is a personal decision that I'm comfortable with but will not appeal to all pilots. The plane is self-insured if I wad it up but I have full hull if the hangar gets hit by a tornado or fire. Basically, I'm taking responsibility for any errors I make while flying, and I intend to be the repair shop if necessary. If the accident is really severe........guess I won't have to worry about repairing the plane...........

Just to be clear, a GNIM policy has full liability coverage at all times, so no liability protection is lost if GNIM is written. There is also GIM (ground, in motion) that covers the hull until you take the active runway.

By the way, my agent is Skysmith, and the carrier is AIG (or whatever they are called now).
 
I keep asking myself: "If I'm the shop and repairman, why am I carrying full coverage?".

Because, in addition to making all the repairs, you'll also be buying all the parts. An engine with a prop strike might cost $20,000 to fix. Ditto with airframe repairs. If you are comfortable with this, you can save $500 a year.

Not a judgement - many people are comfortable with this.

Sam's right about liability coverage - GNIM applies only to hull coverage on most policies.
 
I carry "in motion" but "not in flight".
This covers me while taxiing until I start the take-off roll.
Costs me just under $900 with AIG through SkySmith.
 
not much saved there...

Steve,
I also have an RV-4 and I'm paying similar rates. Your correct, there is very little to be gained by dropping the "in-motion" coverage. Almost all accidents happen in motion anyway. I have self insured motorcyles in the past. Generally, if the insurance premiums will amount to the cost of the vehicle in (say 5 years), I will self-insure. In this case, it will take you about 30 years of premiums to cover the cost of your RV. In this scenario, I pay the premiums.

That said, my(2nd hand) RV went 16 years without insurance before I bought it. When I told my friend (the builder) that I thought the insurance was a little high for the plane, his response was "You can get insurance ??"

John
 
Sailplane not in motion coverage

I have always changed my sailplane insurance to "not in motion" coverage during the winter months when I don't fly it. For years, I presumed that if I chose to fly while the "not in motion" coverage was in effect, that I was accepting the risk of no hull coverage, but that the liability coverage was still in effect.

It turns out that I was mistaken. The underwriter considers "not in motion" to mean that there is no coverage, either hull or liability, for in-motion incidents. Knowing that, I no longer fly my glider when the "not in motion" coverage is in effect.

If you choose the not in motion option, be sure to verify whether or not the liability coverage for in motion remains in effect.
 
Sounds reasonable for hull damage. What's the liability gonna cost?
 
I cannot imagine why you'd carry "not in motion" only... if vast majority of mishaps happen while aircraft is moving..

Except in Florida, when it's hurricane season.

I'm self insured and have liability only for 355/year.
I figure I'm saving almost 2k/year and figure I can do my own repairs. I've been flying 3 years now and figured I've saved 6k.
It is a risk I've felt comfortable with up to now. The downside is if we get nailed by a hurricane or tornando.
 
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Don't undervalue your plane

Perhaps Dana (Black Magic) can enter into this post. He will tell you NOT to undervalue you plane.

From his own personal experience and as I understand it, had the only insured it for say.....50K, then the insurance company could have paid 50K and taken the plane for the salvage value.

Dana - if you are reading this, please elaborate and educate us.
 
Insurance

Insurance is a numbers game. You bet you?ll need it and the insurance company bets you won?t. And if you do need it, believe me, for most of us the insurance company will pay way more for their lawyers than you will for yours???.All that said, I carry liability insurance for my flying but during my 35 years of plane ownership, I have never carried any damage, hull or hanger insurance, moving or otherwise. I?m basically self insured.
That?s not to say I haven?t had losses. However my total losses have been less than 20% of what my premiums would have been over the same period.
I?m inclined to see the plane as a discretionary expense, not an investment. I wreck it, I eat the loss, psychologically write it off and move on. I treat my automobiles the same way. I only insure (other than liability) during the financing stage of ownership.

Do what you feel comfortable with.
 
Perhaps Dana (Black Magic) can enter into this post. He will tell you NOT to undervalue you plane.

From his own personal experience and as I understand it, had the only insured it for say.....50K, then the insurance company could have paid 50K and taken the plane for the salvage value.

Dana - if you are reading this, please elaborate and educate us.

I believe this thread on my insurance settlement will cover lots of points on valuation. I never did encounter anything remotely negative, referenced by many, during my dealings with the insurance companies involved in my settlement.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=30735
 
I would strongly recommend Dana's thread to everyone! Being in the aviation insurance business, its good to see when things work out the way them should.

For each individual is the decision of how much insurance coverage can one afford is dictated by a combination of how much can one afford to loose in an accident or incident and how much is available. Physical Damage coverage or Hull is a completely controllable option for almost everyone that owns the aircraft free and clear of any liens. If you can afford or want to go without it you should. If you are concerned only for items outside your control like common Mother Nature perils, hangar fires, or vandalism then Ground Not in Motion is the best option for you. This gives you full protection on the Hull up to the stated limit on the policy while the aircraft is not moving under its own power and liability protection whether the aircraft is moving or not. Meaning you have liability coverage while flying or the engine is running, but no longer physical damage coverage. If you want the ability to repair your aircraft or get a similar new one with very little out of pocket expenses, except for things that our damaged due to wear and tear or mechanical failure, then full coverage insurance is a fair investment for the risk involved. Jeff's also brings up a good point that repairs are more than just your time - its parts also.

One of Dana's strongest points regarding value is not under insuring your aircraft to save money. It may end up costing you money in the long run. An aircraft insured under market value can lead the insurance company to a greater possibility of a total loss meaning they write you a check for the policy limit, take the aircraft, and sell the salvage. You loose because the policy limit was not a big enough check and you don't have your salvage to try and re-build. Some of these things can be negotiated for a reduced settlement so you can keep your aircraft, but this is a typical process. It can turn into a claims nightmare.

As for liability coverage, with as inexpensive as this is for most - typically $600 or less for a policy which covers up to $1,000,000 each occurrence for bodily injury and property damage limited to $100,000 for each passenger is money well spent to offer a first line of protection for you and your family. It allows for defense coverage if you are sued and can pay for things you didn't intend to happen but do. For instance, you have an engine failure and you can't make the airport. You land in an orange grove, your fuel leaks out and kills a section of the grove. Farmer sues you for $10,000 in lost income and replacement costs of the damaged items. The local natural resources department sends you a bill for $10,000 for remediation of the contaminated soil they had to remove and replace. Can you afford to defend yourself in the suite, pay the resource department and pay the judgment along with repairing your aircraft? If you can ? then you are free to go without. Just remember who is left to take care of these items if the end result of the accident does not leave you here to take care of it.
 
Paid off once

Here's my insurance anecdote:
I've always carried full hull insurance on my aircraft. About two years ago, I was landing my Cherokee at my home airport, and hit ~20 knots of wind shear just around 30' above the ground. There was no warning, no gust report on the ATIS, just a steady 20-knot headwind on final that twisted around 100 degrees or so just before the numbers.

Airplane came down onto the runway like a sack of bricks, broke off one gear leg, bent both spars downward, rippled the fuselage and crumpled the motor mount. Total loss.

I regard this as a pretty-much unavoidable accident, in-motion of course.
I had a check from my insurance company in two weeks. Bought my present steed, a nice RV6, within a month afterwards.

Even though the insurance cost went up for my new-to-me RV6, I pay it happily. Hope I never have to use it again, but I pay it.

G.
 
Dan,
Who provides your liability? I pay $625 through EAA/Falcon Ins. for liability only (RV-4)...I like your price much better.

Glenn Wilkinson
 
It's my mission in life...

to help this forum understand this.;) Glenn - Your insurance is "with" neither EAA or Falcon Ins. Falcon Insurance is a broker. They take your info and solicit your risk to several insurance companies and then report to you the quotes. EAA simply does the advertising for the deal.

If you don't like the price of your policy, ask your broker to show you all the other quotes. They will be happy to. That way you'll KNOW that you've got the best deal. ...and you don't have to play the constant broker hopping game.
 
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