Do NOT just ident

VAF's front page recently featured a link to a Flying magazine article entitled "Feeling Forgotten? How to Jog ATC's Memory."

The author, Doug Stewart, suggests using your transponder's 'ident' button to "wake up" the controller and remind him that (among other things) you haven't been handed off to tower or the next controller, or you're about to fly through the localizer, or you haven't received that altitude change you requested a while ago, and so on.

This is a REALLY BAD idea.

First, the Airman's Information Manual specifically says not to do this. "The transponder shall be operated only as specified by ATC. Activate the 'IDENT' feature only upon request of the ATC controller."

Second, controllers hate it when you do it. It's rude and potentially dangerous. They may have just asked somebody else to ident for some reason -- somebody on another frequency that you didn't even hear. Or your ident may momentarily distract them from something else they are handling. They may not have given you your handoff or altitude/route change because of pop-up traffic or high workload. The point is, you have no idea what issues the controller is working at that moment, and shoving a blooming 'ident' symbol in his face is just like poking a finger in his chest.

If you think you've been forgotten, just calmly and professionally say, "N123XX is at the marker. You want me with the tower?" or something similar.

Honestly, I can't imagine where the author learned his technique, but it is not a good one.

I saw that as well and my first thought was...Wow that is not a good idea. Imagine a controller having a screen full of targets, randomly pressing their ident buttons....

Any ATC types here want to comment on this?

If I think ATC has forgotten about me, I just ask for the current altimeter setting.

Ryan

Can't speak for the ATC folks themselves, but definitely doesn't seem like a good way to get attention to me. I've always had good luck doing what others mentioned previously in this thread (speaking up).

BuckWynd said:

VAF's front page recently featured a link to a Flying magazine article entitled "Feeling Forgotten? How to Jog ATC's Memory."


Honestly, I can't imagine where the author learned his technique, but it is not a good one.

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I was taught this technique years ago by my multi-engine instructor, who was a center controller. He always idented on the initial call to a facility, but then again most of the controllers in our area knew him personally and recognized his voice.

The only time I ever used it was going VFR into midway when the controller brought me in 90 degrees to the parallels, asked me to stay below 800' AGL give him my best groundspeed, and call him at the airport boundary. The frequency was full when I got to the airport (at 180+ knots) so I idented.

The controller immediately cleared me to land, and asked for a tight pattern/no delay. overall I though oit was a good solution to frequency congestion.

I have noticed that a lot of these magazines have writers and editors who have never even flown a GA aircraft. If the author of the "tip" in question really does this, he/she needs some serious remedial training in the basic's.

9GT said:

I have noticed that a lot of these magazines have writers and editors who have never even flown a GA aircraft. If the author of the "tip" in question really does this, he/she needs some serious remedial training in the basic's.

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Per the website:

"Doug Stewart is a MCFI, DPE and 2004 National CFI of the Year. He is the Chairman of the Society of Aviation and Flight Educators (SAFE). He operates DSFI, Inc, (www.dsflight.com) out of the Columbia County Airport in Hudson, NY where he provides instrument, tailwheel and sport pilot instruction."

Bad idea. From my controller days back in the last millenium I found unsolicited idents to be Distracting, Contrary to AIM guidelines, annoying, and potentially unsafe. Why make the controller guess what you are doing, he/she may be busy with something else. If you have a concern use the radio and be direct. Safer and quicker in the long run.

Brantel said:

Per the website:

"Doug Stewart is a MCFI, DPE and 2004 National CFI of the Year. He is the Chairman of the Society of Aviation and Flight Educators (SAFE). He operates DSFI, Inc, (www.dsflight.com) out of the Columbia County Airport in Hudson, NY where he provides instrument, tailwheel and sport pilot instruction."

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He can have all the credentials in the world after his name but it doesn't mean he is right.

and somehow we believe calling him on the radio is less distracting than an ident?

I don't have a problem with this..wouldn't be my first choice but I've done it when the freq is very congested and it has worked very well for me..in fact the last time the controller apologized for forgetting to switch me to tower.

I've also done it when I see traffic that could be in conflict and ATC hasn't bothered to call it out. 99% of the time, the next call I get is a traffic call. In this case it is meant as a poke in the chest.

The AIM is a guideline. Do what works. If they don't like, let them tell you themselves.

I also disagree with the random ident. If Approach doesn't switch me over to Tower in time and the frequency is congested, I simply call Tower. If it's a non-time critical problem, I simply relax and wait for a chance to get my word in.

RV8R999 said:

I've also done it when I see traffic that could be in conflict and ATC hasn't bothered to call it out. 99% of the time, the next call I get is a traffic call. In this case it is meant as a poke in the chest.

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OK, am I missing something? If you see the traffic, what is the need to point it out to ATC? You've seen, now you just need to avoid.

Remember, ATC is not responsible from separating you from other VFR traffic, even if you are IFR.

I can identify w/ that.

Buck, Those are great comments and I totally agree.
It is not a rare instance for a controller to forget you or be too busy to
call you for whatever reason. A gentle reminder on the radio is all it takes.
A friend of mine that works So. Cal on the west coast also agrees w/ your remarks that use of the ident feature is is both rude and distracting.
It would be interesting to take a survey of more controllers to get their take.
Steve

Ident

Yeah, I read that and my 1st thought was the author needed to quit sniffing glue!

no way of knowing if the plane Im looking at is IFR or VFR so when I am IFR, I'm happiest when ATC calls out the traffic that looks like its going to be a factor in case I DON'T see him the next time, especially on the approach. The point is to make sure they are in fact paying attention and it works. Don't tell me you've never been forgotten by ATC? Not once has any controller had a problem with it.

if you think they forgot about you... just ask for a ride report... <BG> You give them a chance to save face and it (usually) won't irritate them in case your wrong...

RV8R999 said:

Don't tell me you've never been forgotten by ATC? Not once has any controller had a problem with it.

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I've been forgotten plenty of times. In fact, I'd say I've been forgotten while IFR up at FL390 just as many times as I have down at 3,500' while VFR. All I've ever had to do is politely say, "Center/Approach/Tower, NXXX, Did we miss a frequency change?"

I think controllers tolerate a lot of bad pilot techniques that they don't necessarily confront us about on the radio. In my experience, most of them are too professional to tell you they "have a problem" with something like that. They just look at the controller next to them and roll their eyes a bit.

Controllers forget things all the time. Have to agree with Buck on this - using IDENT to wake up the controller isn't a good idea.

Just give them a polite call and query or inform as needed. The only approved use of the transponder to get ATC's attention is to squawk 7700 or 7600, as far as I know.

Heck no! The ident button doesn't do anything for US (Controller, El Monte ATCT) other than establish your location for radar identification. The radio is the way we communicate, we do need memory joggers every now and then. Use the radio. Even just saying your callsign and leaving at that would be better than an ident...

I would think there is at least one reasonable exception to the "don't ident" advice.

There are times when VHF comm is unusable, or not timely.

All of us who have monitored center on cross country flights have heard center trying to contact wayward airplanes:

"Cessna 1234X, center.....Cessna 1234X, center.....Cessna 1234X if you hear center ident..."

It's not uncommon in busy terminal environments at Class B airports for the tower or approach frequency to be so congested it is effectively unusable for 30 seconds or more. That can be potentially hazardous.

For the controllers--what if my assigned heading is about to take me blasting through a departure corridor at your Class B airport during a push, and I can't get a word in edgewise because of all the other radio traffic? As I see it, my choices are to wait patiently for an opening (possibly creating a conflict), maneuver unpredictably to you to avoid what I can see without radar, or quietly remind you I'm there on the "back channel" by hitting the ident.

I absolutely agree that VHF comm is the best way to go, and it's almost always what i use when I think the controller has forgotten me.

Why not use all the tools at your disposal if something is time critical though?

Please understand I'm not picking at controllers, I'm just curious Using the transponder this way seems perfectly reasonable to me and I'm a bit surprised at some of the reactions.

It's my experience that busy controllers, particularly in a terminal environment, do tend to forget about "little" airplanes, although my guess is that controllers who post on this board are more interested in GA than their peers.

James,
The PIC is recognized as the final authority responsible for the safe outcome of the flight by both FAR 91 and AIM. Within the context of your PIC emergency authority, you therefore may deviate from FAR or ATC instructions to maintain safety of flight. Just make sure it was really necessary.

If deviating from ATC clearance, you are required to contact ATC as soon as possible to inform of the deviation. I've done this a few times, and only once have had to file a report at ATC's request. Probably everyone here on VAF who flies for money could tell you of something similar.

In the airline world, we deal with mucked up frequencies on a near daily basis. Of course, we're on an IFR flight plan but that still doesn't preclude potential conflict situations from arising. In all the ba-gillions of hours flown in the commercial world, we never-ever have been trained, and I personally have never heard anyone advocate the use of IDENT to wake up a controller or to get in on the freq. Forget it, just keep trying on the radio and deviate if really necessary.

ident

I work at ZMA center. To use the ident feature as a memory jogger for us is not needed. We use the ident feature to radar identify aircraft and to establish com problems. So if we ask someone to ident, and see a bunch of idents then we have to use another method of radar identification. Now another time we have pilots ident...is when we think they can hear us but we can't hear them. Radio coverage at low altitudes far from transmitter sites. One would hear something like this, "N278RV, If you hear Miami Center, Ident." From time to time, we do have aircraft with transmitter problems. Then a controller would issue a clearance with a "Ident to acknoledge" to confirm the pilot has received the instructions.

If I see a pilot who idents without us asking after every clearance or instruction; I just think the pilot does not know what he is doing. Be proficient flying in high traffic density areas.

take care and hope that helps a bit.

Frequently at some of our local airports, we get told to "report the greenhouses" or whatever the appropriate reporting point is at the time. On busy days, when you can't easily get a word in edgewise, would hitting the ident as you hit the reporting point be acceptable? The tower knows the frequency is busy, and he gets your "ping" that you're at the reporting point. I haven't done this, but have always wondered if it would work.

I guess the issue is what happens in the tower when someone hits Ident without being asked... Does it flash something on the radar for some set time, that might distract or confuse the controller in any way?

I haven't encountered the situation where I couldn't divert if a circuit was really full and I had to wait to enter the control zone. But i've frequently found myself inside a busy control zone, been asked to report over a certain point, and then not been able to do it due to frequency congestion. Doing a 360 to hold over the point never seems like a good idea...

Just stumbled onto this one. I never read the OP posted article but I have noticed a pilot or two doing this and I thought it was quite clever.

I am undecided as to whether this is a good idea or not. If I see an aircraft identing for no reason...I usually just ignore it. I have seen on occasion, and this is where I think it is a great reminder, where an aircraft is vectored onto the base turn and approaching final and he knows he needs to be turned onto final very soon, he will ident. This has reminded me to issue the turn and clearance. In this scenario, I find it to be a friendly reminder. if I see that and I didn't need the reminder I will say to myself, "Yeah, yeah buddy, I see you" (Sometimes I delay the turn on for wind, spacing, etc etc.)

Other than that scenario I am not sure it is very helpful. As far as using this method with a tower, make sure your tower HAS a radar display or it would be useless.

I may be one of the few....but I really don't mind if you ident to remind me of something. Of course, the radio is the primary source of communications.

I use it as a backup all the time. Started doing so under the direction of USAF protocol ... & have continued in my civilian ops. Never heard a contrary word about it.

Since some are bent on the AIM ... AIM doesn't require an acknowledgement of a reassigned squawk either ... but since almost all pilots do, ATC has come to expect it.

I reset the transponder code & ident ... unless ATC asks for a verbal acknowledgement.

Prob a COMSEC throwback, but ... given the environment these days ... I think it's still a good practice.