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  #21  
Old 08-22-2021, 04:36 PM
Kmdpilot Kmdpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bend
Posts: 13
Default

These are all great comments. I keep getting drawn back to the 12IS. Just such a straight forward build and it was truly a fun plane to fly. I wish it could fly IFR not that I would ever want to fly into hard IMC conditions in it. But in the northwest, there are rare times the TAF has a cloud layer that is supposed to burn off but end up hanging around like family on holidays and a pop up to clear a layer would be nice. But honestly, that wouldn't happen often and could hit an alternate while waiting. The nice thing is I work 7 days on and 7 days off so could probably build it in a year (pending parts). If it doesn't fit my mission, I can sell it and wither build the 9A or buy one prebuilt....or see what the 15 has in store for us.
Thanks!
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  #22  
Old 08-23-2021, 07:05 AM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 78
Default Economical Flying

The -12iS can get you around at 120mph while burning just 4.1gph of autogas. When I travel plan on google maps for driving then flight plan on ForeFlight for the -12iS I find that it is far more economical (not to mention time savings) to fly than drive. Very, very few aircraft can achieve this.

Now you brought the -15 into the discussion and depending on how the final design comes out I just might be building a -15 and giving up the economy of the -12iS. The -15 would need to have capabilities similar to the CubCrafters (32kt stall/140mph cruise) but be a side by side for me to make the switch so I would bet I will be flying the -12iS for years to come.
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Purchased N112DR E-LSA flying with 28.2 hours - Thank you David (CraftingN112DR) for putting your skills, knowledge and attention to detail in this RV-12iS!
Dropped at paint shop this morning (July 15, 2021)
Picked up from paint shop (August 14, 2021)
Donated
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  #23  
Old 08-23-2021, 01:32 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmdpilot View Post
I wish it could fly IFR not that I would ever want to fly into hard IMC conditions in it.
You can equip an E-LSA RV-12iS for IFR. Garmin GPS-175 is probably easiest.
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2021, 05:45 PM
Kmdpilot Kmdpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bend
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
You can equip an E-LSA RV-12iS for IFR. Garmin GPS-175 is probably easiest.
Last I understood is that it can be equipped to train for IFR but not actually fly IMC conditions in ELSA and SLSA. SO it could not be used for pop up IFR for the rare pesky cloud layer that refuses to move along. The RV12IST I flew in was Vans high end avionics package for the 12 and it was really nice and would be a great trainer. If it can legally fly light IFR conditions, then I will be submitting may deposit ASAP.
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2021, 06:00 PM
myv65 myv65 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Beloit, WI
Posts: 14
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You do have the option to build a 12 as EAB. In my understanding this allows IFR use, though whether or not it's a good idea depends upon the actual conditions, training, ADM, etc. This also has an effect on resale, should that be a consideration.

All that said, it sounds like the build time and method are primary concerns for you, and as far as I can tell that's the only real advantage of the 12. Only you can decide how much that matters.
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  #26  
Old 08-23-2021, 06:05 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmdpilot View Post
Last I understood is that it can be equipped to train for IFR but not actually fly IMC conditions in ELSA and SLSA. SO it could not be used for pop up IFR for the rare pesky cloud layer that refuses to move along. The RV12IST I flew in was Vans high end avionics package for the 12 and it was really nice and would be a great trainer. If it can legally fly light IFR conditions, then I will be submitting may deposit ASAP.
The S-LSA version cannot be flown IMC. The E-LSA can be, if the OpLims don't forbid it. And the gurus here say that clause should NOT be in the OpLims.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2021, 06:52 PM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
You can equip an E-LSA RV-12iS for IFR. Garmin GPS-175 is probably easiest.
There are a handful of -12's out there that were not limited to VFR because they were built before the change in LSA language prohibiting it went through. My E-LSA -12iS has the Garmin dual display and I fly it as if flying IFR quite often.

The G3X allows for making a flight plan. I build my flight plan adding the waypoints of the RNAV approach before the destination airport. Then I have my iPad with ForeFlight and the approach plate open for knowing the altitudes of each step down of the approach.

Example: IAF of 3,000' I use autopilot to hold 3,000' until crossing the IAF waypoint then dial in the next altitude of 2,500' and hit VS on the 307 autopilot control and "down" 500 feet per minute, drop manifold pressure to 15 - 16 and hold 70kts. At 2,500' I bring manifold pressure back to 25 to hold 2,500 then dial in the next waypoint altitude (say 1,600') then wait until crossing the current waypoint target then dropping manifold pressure to 15 - 16 and VS down 500 feet per minute until that altitude is reached and increasing manifold pressure to 25 again. Repeat procedures to 1,200' for last waypoint before runway and when 1,200 is reached I take off my Foggles (yes, I always have a Safety Pilot), tap off autopilot and make the decision to land or not (since actually in VMC it seems I have a 100% "make the landing" decision).

All this is done so that if I ever find my self flying into IMC unexpectedly I can utilize my Instrument abilities to get myself and passenger out of danger.

If the LSA rules ever change to allow IFR in the -12iS then I will be first in line to have the GPS175 installed! This airplane flies "IFR" so well I would trust it equipped as it is to fly an Instrument flight plan but it wouldn't be legal thus the GPS175 install.

The G3X with autopilot, AOA and ESP is an amazing avionics package.
__________________
Purchased N112DR E-LSA flying with 28.2 hours - Thank you David (CraftingN112DR) for putting your skills, knowledge and attention to detail in this RV-12iS!
Dropped at paint shop this morning (July 15, 2021)
Picked up from paint shop (August 14, 2021)
Donated
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2021, 06:56 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
If the LSA rules ever change to allow IFR in the -12iS then I will be first in line to have the GPS175 installed! This airplane flies "IFR" so well I would trust it equipped as it is to fly an Instrument flight plan but it wouldn't be legal thus the GPS175 install.
What is the ACTUAL wording in your OpLims? Specifically.
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2021 Donation Paid
RV-12iS(s) kit on order...
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2021, 06:59 PM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
What is the ACTUAL wording in your OpLims? Specifically.
I'm flying again Wednesday afternoon and will pull them and snap a picture (unless someone else posts the wording before I leave to fly).
__________________
Purchased N112DR E-LSA flying with 28.2 hours - Thank you David (CraftingN112DR) for putting your skills, knowledge and attention to detail in this RV-12iS!
Dropped at paint shop this morning (July 15, 2021)
Picked up from paint shop (August 14, 2021)
Donated
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2021, 07:01 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
Default

See this post: https://vansairforce.net/community/s...1&postcount=25

And the rest of the discussion in that thread. In 2013, it wasn't allowed. The standard OpLims were changed before 2017.
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RV-12iS(s) kit on order...
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