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  #1  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:18 PM
tswanson tswanson is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Tremont
Posts: 25
Default Elevator Hinge Bearing Rivets Too Short?

I'm assembling the HS-411APP, VA-146, and HS-411BPP (the main center bearing and bracket assembly) and Vans calls out an AN470AD4-5 rivet. This rivet only protrudes .106 before squeezing and only about 0.035" after squeezing to form the desired 0.1875" diameter shop head. This seems quite a bit too short to me.

I've read several places that rivet lengths are just guidelines etc, but I don't see anything about this spot specifically. Has this been everyone else's experience with this hinge assembly as well? Is this like this for a reason? I could easily squeeze -6's in there without bending them over. Just making sure I'm not missing something. Kindof an important one...





Thanks,
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Last edited by tswanson : 08-13-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:29 PM
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G-force G-force is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Castaic, CA
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Standard Aircraft Handbook (every RV builder should own this book) calls for a 1/8" rivet to start with a protrusion of 1.5 times the diameter (0.187) and a shop head heigth of .046" to .078" with a diameter of .172" to .218." Hanson Rivets has a slightly different range on their webpage listed at https://www.hansonrivet.com/rivets/s...-solid-rivets/ That said, I would use the 4-6 rivets.
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Last edited by G-force : 08-13-2018 at 11:26 PM. Reason: typo
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:10 PM
terrye terrye is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Default Elevator Hinge Bearing Rivets Too Short?

My RV-9A drawing 3 rev R1 calls out an AN470AD-6 rivet here. Look closely on the plans, sometimes a '6' looks like a '5' if the print process is not absolutely clear.

You should have a rivet gauge that shows 1.5x the rivet diameter on the undriven shank, if not a ruler graduated in 1/32" can be used to verify the correct length.

It may be just the scale of the pictures you posted, but the rivet shop head looks over driven to me. Table III MIL-R-47196A shows a driven head minimum diameter of 0.163" and a driven height of 0.050-0.070". I think you can download this standard from Vans or www.everyspec.com
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:20 PM
tswanson tswanson is offline
 
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Location: Tremont
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Thanks guys. That's what I figured but thought I would double check. Looks a lot better with the 6's.

Thanks guys. I like it a lot better now.
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  #5  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:49 AM
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Warbo Warbo is offline
 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
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G?day Todd,
Have a look in Section 5 General Information in your preview plans where it talks about riveting. You will find this note:
NOTE: There are times when the correct rivet length is not available. Depending on the application a shorter rivet can be used or a longer rivet cut to the proper length. Using a longer rivet, as is, can result in the shank being bent over like a nail. We have chosen to use a rivet that may seem too short in some places, but will do the job adequately.
I?m pretty sure this is one of those occasions where Van?s have chosen a shorter rivet that will do the job adequately.
Cheers
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:36 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Exclamation Thicknesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbo View Post
G’day Todd,
Have a look in Section 5 General Information in your preview plans where it talks about riveting. You will find this note:
NOTE: There are times when the correct rivet length is not available. Depending on the application a shorter rivet can be used or a longer rivet cut to the proper length. Using a longer rivet, as is, can result in the shank being bent over like a nail. We have chosen to use a rivet that may seem too short in some places, but will do the job adequately.
I’m pretty sure this is one of those occasions where Van’s have chosen a shorter rivet that will do the job adequately.
Cheers
I would disagree.

If you add up the thicknesses involved - two x 0.050 and 0.063 - then calculation would give a theoretical 5.5 rivet length. The protrusion of a -5 rivet would only be 1.25X rather than the usual 1.5X.

That would be acceptable but - add to that stack-up 4 layers of usually quite thick Vans powder coating and 2 layers of whatever primer you are using and the 1.25X exposure number rapidly decreases.

A -6 rivet would be appropriate.
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Last edited by az_gila : 08-14-2018 at 09:39 AM.
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