Where to cross rockies????

Traveling from Portland Oregon area to Dallas/FW (52F) next Monday to have my 9A painted by Grady at GLO, and I need some advice for which route to take.

I am a low air time pilot, (250 hours) with only a few crossings of the Cascades as my mountain flying experience.

Where should I cross the Rockies?

Current thinking is Portland, Boise, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, Dallas.

Would sure appreciate your advice.

Duane

I've flown through parts of that area before but not too much the the far south of your path.

So this is just speculation but doesn't the rockies fade off the further south you go? If i was flight planning I would look at routes that goes almost due south to through Nevada into Arizona and then cuts over from there. . .

I think so.

kevinsky18 said:

I've flown through parts of that area before but not too much the the far south of your path.

So this is just speculation but doesn't the rockies fade off the further south you go? If i was flight planning I would look at routes that goes almost due south to through Nevada into Arizona and then cuts over from there. . .

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I think your right, Is Albuquerque far enough south? or should I go farther?

Id think the best route would to stay north of SLC from Boise, through southern Wyoming, then turn south and stay beyond the eastern slope beyond Denver.

There are four common no OX VFR paths

The one east of Salt Lake City works well as do the ones east of Sante Fe, Albuquerque and at El Paso. Your plan sounds fine if the weather cooperates.

I flew back here to Fayetteville, Arkansas from San Louis Obispo, California two days ago and I flew IFR because of the clouds and storms in the area. You will see the little dog leg route from Albuquerque called V234 that keeps you below the supplemental oxygen levels; that is what I took. If the mountains are not obscured you can cruise straight across with no problem. In the area between Albuquerque and El Paso there are large long restricted areas that you need to be familiar with and avoid.

Have a great trip and I hope your paint job comes out well.

Bob Axsom

Did the crossing once before, from Wichita to PDX, but it was in a Baron so the route wasn't quite as critical. Our route was ICT - Pierre, SD - Bozeman, MT - Pendleton (to top off because weather was looking iffy at destination) - PDX.

If I remember correctly, from Bozeman to Pendleton was no big deal. Seemed more like crossing the Cascades than the Rockies.

Duane,

I've done that same trip several times in my -7, FL to Oregon via Dallas. I believe the easiest (with respect to terrain) is the SLC through WY, then SE towards Dallas. Just bascially follow I-80 out of SLC to Laramie, then head SE. Nothing wrong with your suggestion to go through ABQ, just probably some more rugged terrain at times.

Weather

Duane,
The past week has seen severe weather on the eastern side of the Rockies between Cheyenne and Albuquerque out to mid-Nebraska and Kansas. Severe thunderstorms, hail and tornadoes have hit by early afternoon. Several towns in Eastern Colorado had 5+ inches of rain within the past 48 hours.

I'd recommend either sticking with 1-80 east from Salt Lake City to Cheyenne and then the best route southeast from Cheyenne to Dallas based on weather. Right now the long range forecast from Salt Lake City to Cheyenne looks good for early next week. If you get 6AM starts it would help.

An alternative route out of Salt Lake City would be to swing south down to Cedar City UT, across the Grand Canyon north of Flagstaff to Winslow, AZ. Then follow I-40 east to Albuquerque, then down southeast to Lubbock and Dallas. This is a much more scenic route with less miles over the high terrain. Again, very early morning starts will really help.

If you have or can borrow a XM weather radio unit it would be bvery helpful in keeping up with potential overdevelopment. Keep in mind that flying over higher terrain at 12,000+ ft for extended periods without O2 will leave you fatigued.

If it were me doing the trip, I'd opt for the southern route out of Salt Lake City IF the weather forecast was good.

Albert Thomas
N880AT
RV-8A QB (finishing & FWF)
Denver, CO

choices: efficiency, more populated, lower terrain

[1] Direct GPS and fly high

[2] Semi direct, take you over Salt lake, UT, than out of Salt Lake follow roads and passes South-East, thru the Rockies Gunnison Co pass (GUC) than DAL .........

[3] The lowest level route or "less scary" for flat landers off the top of my head is go south, follow the freeway down the Willamette Valley over Grant and Siskiyou Pass (which is not low but you can see a freeway and well defined pass), than down the central California valley and cut over the Sierra Nevada's East bound around apple valley (east of LA) than over/past Vegas, past (North of Phoenix), New Mexico (Watch military area around Alamogordo NM) and than Dallas. Basically end run around the Rockies. If you are adventurous you can cut over sooner at Bishop California (East of Fresno high in the Sierra Nevada mountains. It's a good place to get gas since its at like +4,000 ft so you don't have to descend or climb much from cruise, like the Denver of the West, but small and no tower. The up side of this route is you are around lots of airports most of the time. Down side about 230 NM longer than direct each way. However overnight in Vegas is fun. You can land at LAS and the strip is right there (LGT is the GA airport North West). At night VFR finding LAS airport among all the lights is a little challenge.

[4] From NW Oregon go thru Colombia river gorge to the East side of the Sierra Nevada and drive south similar to above and cut over around Reno or Vegas (Watch out for Area 51) direct Dallas more or less. There are not many airports on this route. Got stuck at TPH, Tonopah NV due to weather once (just north of Area 51). It was a former WWII bomber training base with some history and old airport dog. Got a ride into nearby town for hotel and dinner. Was all right. Would not be a planned stop but turned out to be fun. If driving its half way between Vegas and Reno.

Route [3] may work when others will not, or vis verse. Be flexible. If you fly from the North West to anywhere in the country a good distance you will have to cross a pass somewhere, but you can fly over rugged terrain, high desert or passes. Its up to you. There are passes thru the Rockies and all you have to do is Google it. Many have their own Weather phone number and/or AWOS. I also look at gas stops and fun spots to stop.

Boise to Salt Lake City is nothing as far as mountains are concerned.

But anytime I fly south east from KSLC, I prefer the scenic route which includes Bryce Canyon (BCE), or Moab:Canyonlands (CNY) ; then on down to the Lake Powell area, as well as Monument Valley which puts you close to the four corners area (Utah,Arizona, New Mexico,Colorado state lines.

This route is extremely scenic with lots of red rock, and the Colorado and Green Rivers. Beats the grayish & bland deserts west of KSLC and through Nevada.

L.Adamson

My recommendation is to not go I-80 east, through Wyoming. That is very high country over there and there are often storms, plus it is not that pretty, pretty boring flight.

I would highly recommend flying from Boise to Salt Lake City then either over Bryce and Lake Powell, then Sante Fe or Moab and Sante Fe just like others have recommended. You can come in from the north near Salt Lake, and stay below 7600 feet (below class B airspace). I would recommend fuel at Ogden Airport. It is the cheapest gas in Utah. Then you can take off from Ogden, fly around Hill AFB, and head south. It is always fun to head up the canyon near KBTF (my homebase) and over Park City to see the ski jumps and resorts then you can head to Price UT, then Moab (KCNY). From there it is an easy flight to Sante Fe and from Sante Fe it is a straight shot to Dallas (no more mountains). You can make that flight without having to fly over 10,000 feet.Plus it is really beautiful. When I flew to Houston, that was the route I took.

If you want feel free to call me and I can talk to you about the different routes through Utah. Who knows, I may give you an escort if I have the time. Have a great time! Check your Private Message.

Ski Jumps near Park City


Green River and the Book Cliffs near Price UT.


Lake Powell near Page, AZ

Read about a J-3 Cub crossing the Rockies.

If you read the book "Flight of Passage" by Rinker Buck before you go, I think you'll really feel better about your trip. You'll learn about the routes and hazards that these two inexperienced youngsters took over the Rockies. They flew coast to coast in the sixties I believe, in a J-3 Cub. They were 15 or 16 at the time. No GPS. No VOR's. Just primary instruments and a chart. It has some smart aleck cuss words that I marked out before I'd let my teenager read it.

Get this book!

I'm going to be darn well disappointed if as a RV pilot I can't cross the Rockies anywhere I please.

Rivethead said:

I'm going to be darn well disappointed if as a RV pilot I can't cross the Rockies anywhere I please.

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You can!
As George said "[1] Direct GPS and fly high"

When your fingernails start to turn blue, drop down into a valley and get a few breaths than go back up. (Only kidding of course, follow the rules, use O2)

Rivethead said:

I'm going to be darn well disappointed if as a RV pilot I can't cross the Rockies anywhere I please.

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Don't worry, you can!



17,500 over the Colorado San Juan mountains, June 2000. This was a course direct from Grand Junction, CO to Carlsbad, NM. Groundspeed was around 200 knots. Statute MPG over the ground, close to 40.

On my two trips to OSH from California I've crossed the Rockies by following a line that runs roughly between Malad City, ID and Riverton, WY. The terrain is fairly low through there. Or just fly high and go in a straight line as others have pointed out. I just like to follow low territory just in case. Main thing I would suggest is try to get past the Rockies by lunch time.

Flight of Passage...

I have that book. I enjoyed the story of a couple of teens flying to Southern California from New Jersey. I thought it was cute that "El Capitan" was the "high point" of their trip across the "Rockies" when that is really the Guadalupe Mountain range. The Rockies get pretty low compared to Colorado when you cross the continental divide on I-10 in southern New Mexico.

Seriously, the route Rinker Buck took toward El Paso is the same route I took to LOE5 with our Host and the other RV's from the DFW area.

As for the route through Southern Utah, DO IT! You won't be disappointed. I drove all over that area in a rental car a couple of years before my RV-9A was completed. It is scenic from the ground, and even better from the air. http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/west_trip.html

I wish I was doing the flight with you, but I have my day job travels coming up in the next two weeks, sans the RV-9A. I have to drive my Caddy to Florida loaded with technical stuff for a trade show in Orlando next week. The week after that, I fly to Phoenix for a fiber optics communications seminar where I am the presenter. I fly out on the following Wednesday non-stop from ATL then come home on Friday. The shuttle bus van from the Chattanooga area is the ground transportation for that week.

Jerry K. Thorne
RV-9A - - N2PZ
East Ridge, TN
Hobbs = 233.0 hours.

Where to land?

Just note that some paths take you over terrain with minimal good landing spots in an emergency.

Also note that your cell phone is not likely to be useful. I have a 406 MHz, GPS-equipped PLB for contingency. And it will be hot.

Thanks!

Thanks everyone for all the good information. I will watch the weather and make a decision early Monday morning.

I do have a 496 that will help me avoid the bad stuff along the way.

Look forward to seeing the "home" airport of VAF!!!!


Duane

Nips, I read "Flight of Passage", too. Very enjoyable book. Interesting commentary on how times have changed - in so many ways. When my boys are 16 and 13, I don't think I'd EVER have the guts to let them do such a thing - even though I intend to raise them in such a way that they would be able to if I did let them.

It is not how high are the Rockies when you fly over them in your RV, but..

n5lp said:

Don't worry, you can!

17,500 over the Colorado San Juan mountains, June 2000. This was a course direct from Grand Junction, CO to Carlsbad, NM. Groundspeed was around 200 knots. Statute MPG over the ground, close to 40.

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can you glide to an emergency landing if needed.

Kent

Good idea but limits utility, to each (PIC) their own

kentb said:

can you glide to an emergency landing if needed.

Kent

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Take a chance on life, you can't always fly over landing spots.

You can try to stay within glide of airports, roads and so on, but it severely limits the utility. I had one acquaintance that flew (or said he flew) only over freeways, IFR, I follow roads. He felt safer but really often with cars, overpasses, signs, and lights roads may not be as good as a field. Also you should climb to max altitude at all times. Its good concept but again, we take chances when we fly. I don't criticize that thinking but there are other ways to compromise utility and safe off field landing opportunities.

Learning to fly in the north west out over water to islands and over mountains I guess I have accepted the risk.

I made the flight from Independence, OR to 52F in March 2007

My starting point was Independence, OR. Weather permitting, my suggestion from personal experience in March/07, is to make Yerington, NV your first fuel stop. Yerington usually has the best fuel price in the area. Next waypoint would be St. George, Utah. There are some MOAs and/or Restricted areas to deal with between Yerington and SGU, but no big deal. You probably will not need to stop due to fuel exhaustion, but a quick self-service fillup at St. George will get you across the Rockies. You can get a sandwich at the SGU Terminal building. From there, avoid the north end of the Grand Canyon when you get to it in an hour or so out of SGU, continue on past Albuquerque over the Rockies to Tucumcari, New Mexico. That's how far I got in March the first day. You may have more daylight hours than I had in March. Stayed the night in Tucumcari, they have a courtesy. The second leg, Tucumcari to 52F, is just over 2 1/2 hrs. the next day. Piece of cake if weather is on your side as it was for me.

If you want to talk about it, you can call me at 503-302-6298. I'll be at Scappoose on Saturday 16th, weather permitting. Look for -9A - purple and
white. This is not the airplane I took to NW Regional.

Jake Thiessen
Independence, OR

kentb said:

can you glide to an emergency landing if needed.

Kent

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Yes, I could have certainly glided to an emergency landing. If you mean to an airport, probably not most of the time. That is the way it is out west.

If I fly from Carlsbad to El Paso, the nearest big airport to the west, it will be around 80 miles until I reach the first airport. If I insist on staying in gliding distance of an airport, I basically can't go anywhere.

Even in the Rockies there are places to land, especially from 17,500 feet. There are valley pastures and roads and such. I have respect for the drawbacks of roads, but sometimes they are the best alternatives.

When I fly over the Guadalupe Mountains there are usually survivable places to land, but at times I make the choice to spend a few minutes over likely unsurvivable terrain. If I want more safety, I would probably not be in a homebuilt high performance airplane, I would be at the library or maybe fishing from a pier.

There are choices that each individual makes. RV flying is not likely among the safest pursuits one might choose.

I happened to rewatch "The World's Fastest Indian" again last night. In that film there is a line something like "You live more in five minutes on a bike like this going flat out than some people live in a lifetime".

I believe in safety mindedness and also believe in living.

Lots of choices

Duane,

This time a year there are lots of choices. Most of the routes you would take have already been mentioned. I live in West Linn and have ferried a number of planes both east and west to Portland, as I used to flight instruct out of Aurora. This time of year, if the weather is good in Idaho, Utah and Wyoming, I'd cross there. If there is any hint of bad weather there, PDX to Reno, to Flagstaff, to Albuquerque, to Dallas is a better route. If the weather is bad in Albuquerque, just keep going south from Flagstaff to Tucson, then on over to El Paso, and then over to Dallas. Basically, start checking the weather in the northern rockies, and if it is bad, keep working your way south along the range. Feel free to call me at 503-939-3018 if you'd like to discuss.

Good Flying,

Josh

Yes, George for you and me, but...

gmcjetpilot said:

Take a chance on life, you can't always fly over landing spots.

You can try to stay within glide of airports, roads and so on, but it severely limits the utility. I had one acquaintance that flew (or said he flew) only over freeways, IFR, I follow roads. He felt safer but really often with cars, overpasses, signs, and lights roads may not be as good as a field. Also you should climb to max altitude at all times. Its good concept but again, we take chances when we fly. I don't criticize that thinking but there are other ways to compromise utility and safe off field landing opportunities.

Learning to fly in the north west out over water to islands and over mountains I guess I have accepted the risk.

Click to expand...

I think that Duane might be more comfortable with having the option of not being over no-landing-zones.

Also if I have my wife with me, she gets nervous if there is lots of water, rocks, trees, or clouds near by. I have had to make unscheduled stops before to give her a change to relax. Poor thing, she really tries to share in my airplane addiction, but it is hard for her.

Kent

I did it!

Well folks,
For those of you interested, here is how I did it.
Portland Oregon to Auburn California. (Had a breakfast meeting there I needed to attend.)

Auburn to Las Vegas, NV. Overnighted there

Las Vegas to Albuquerque, NM ( actually a little airport called Grant-Milen just west of Albuquerque.)

From there we went east and headed towards Lubbock, but got "re-routed" due to thunderstorms.

Ended up staying in a little berg called Tucumcarie NM.

Next morning went on to Grady Oniels shop near Dallas.

A great trip with lots of flying and lots of interesting people along the way.

Thanks for all your advice.


Duane

Good choice. I've made the Vegas - Albuquerque run several times in my 6. I-40 is a safe route to take. Like many said though, at 17,500 with an O2 bottle, you can cross wherever you'd like!

Vegas Airport

We used the North Las Vegas airport.

A ramp guy at Auburn CA said "Don't go in to McCarin Field. They don't like general aviation and the will charge you a boat load of money just to tie down overnight.

The experience at North Las Vegas was good.
People were nice, terminal was very nice. There is a free shuttle from there to the strip every two hours. Gas prices were reasonable. Runway was great.

I would recommend it.

Duane