Frequently Asked Questions - VFR/IFR Certification

[RV-4]

Hello Stein

''the same price as we charge for a pitot/static/txpdr check!''

What is the current/ average price for someone with a Skyview/Garmin TXPR in the USA?

I just wanna compare with what we pay here in Canada...

Thanks

Bruno

[BobTurner]

I think I paid the local (KLVK - San Francisco area) guy $250 for my pitot-static check (Dynon, GRT, Garmin xponder). He does travel to other airports in the area, he says he has to to generate enough business to pay for the frequently required calibration of his test rigs.

He says that he seldom finds equipment failures. The usual problems are related to leaks in the lines, at joints, connections, alternate air valves, etc. Especially in new systems.

His prices are like automotive "shop rates". He includes some time for trouble shooting leaks in his rate, I think it was one or two hours, and it averages out ("lucky" customers don't need any, unlucky customers get a couple of hours of extra labor).

As to the debate: I looked into this, it was so expensive to maintain the test equipment that it didn't even make sense if it was shared among all the local EAA guys, so this is just an academic argument. But I don't see how the FAA could claim the builder isn't the manufacturer. After all if not the builder, then who? Does the FAA claim there is no manufacturer? The FAA has us put our name everywhere it asks for "manufacturer", we are authorized to fabricate parts, etc. But as Stein said, it depends on who you ask.

[SteinAir]

Originally Posted by RV-4

Hello Stein

''the same price as we charge for a pitot/static/txpdr check!''

What is the current/ average price for someone with a Skyview/Garmin TXPR in the USA?

I just wanna compare with what we pay here in Canada...

Thanks

Bruno

Typically in most metropolitan areas for full time shops VFR checks go for around $100 +/- and IFR for around $300 +/-. Part time guys doing it as a hobby often charge less.....

Cheers,
Stein

[Walt]

Originally Posted by Tim Fitzpatrick

Walt,

The company I use to work for has all the equipment for testing the IFR aircraft that they maintain for Part 135 operations. The avionics guy brings out this certified equipment and we both do the required tests as outlined in Part 43 and the Dynon Skyview installation manual. Am I not legal? Thanks for your time

I know if you asked the guys at my FSDO they would say no you can't, the definition of a manufacturer is pretty clear which you do not meet as a experimental aircraft "builder". One of the key missing ingredients is a manufacturer has FAA oversight with approved methods, processes, QA, etc., you do not.

[RV-4]

Thanks a lot for the reply guys..

I knew we were getting it again around here as usual..I was quoted over $500.00 by 2 different shops in my area..

In Canada now, there is no difference between the 2 checks..It used to be for VFR that a TXPR check was the only thing required but now they ( MOT ) standardized the process and a TXPR/Static/pitot check is required for VFR/IFR no difference..

Thanks

Bruno

[C. Brenden]

I don't have my copy of FAR's with me as I write but I am sure that if you have a transponder installed in your a/c it must be working properly and in the ON position while in flight. It is not the pilots prerogative to turn it off while in the air. I would think if you did not have it tested you could remove it from the a/c, label it as removed, and make a note and weight and balance entry in the logbook. You then could fly outside of the airspace that requires a transponder (Class A & B and mode C veil around class B) until you have the opportunity to have it checked and re-installed.
Craig

[vmirv8bldr]

When you are completing the forms for your airworthiness inspection, there is a paragraph where you can request a larger than usual phase 1 area, or an odd shaped area. If there is a shop relatively nearby, request your phase I area include that field and the area between it and your base. You have to justify any deviations, so the justification here is pretty simple: FAA -required Pitot/Static and Transponder inspection/certification. This, of course, does not necessarily mean you'll get it included, but you may. I did.

[Auburntsts]

Originally Posted by C. Brenden

I don't have my copy of FAR's with me as I write but I am sure that if you have a transponder installed in your a/c it must be working properly and in the ON position while in flight. It is not the pilots prerogative to turn it off while in the air. I would think if you did not have it tested you could remove it from the a/c, label it as removed, and make a note and weight and balance entry in the logbook. You then could fly outside of the airspace that requires a transponder (Class A & B and mode C veil around class B) until you have the opportunity to have it checked and re-installed.
Craig

Not true, excluding operations in Class A, B, or C airspace and above 10000 MSL according to 91.213, Inoperative instruments and equipment:

(d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or (c) of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an approved Minimum Equipment List provided—

(1) The flight operation is conducted in a—

(i) Rotorcraft, non-turbine-powered airplane, glider, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered parachute, or weight-shift-control aircraft, for which a master minimum equipment list has not been developed; or

(ii) Small rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered small airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air aircraft for which a Master Minimum Equipment List has been developed; and

(2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not—

(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated;

(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;

(iii) Required by §91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; or

(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive; and

(3) The inoperative instruments and equipment are—

(i) Removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the maintenance recorded in accordance with §43.9 of this chapter; or
(ii) Deactivated and placarded “Inoperative.” If deactivation of the inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be accomplished and recorded in accordance with part 43 of this chapter

[C. Brenden]

Sec. 91.215 ? ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.


(c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with ?91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.

Here is the spot I was thinking of. It does say you must have the transponder on in all controlled airspace. You could interpret it to say that if you don't maintain it properly you don't have to have it on. In that case you would still have to have it labeled as inop on the panel and make an entry in the log stating so. If you were operating the a/c in controlled airspace with the transponder off and not labeled as inoperative - I believe you would be in violation of this reg.
Craig

[deej]

Originally Posted by C. Brenden

You could interpret it to say that if you don't maintain it properly you don't have to have it on.

In fact, that is exactly the way it is interpreted. I don't have the reg in front of me, but if the transponder hasn't had its checks, I believe you aren't supposed to turn it on at all in flight.

-Dj