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  #11  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:54 AM
rocketbob's Avatar
rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Location: 8I3
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Default

The best way to prime the oil system is fill the filter with oil and pressurize the oil galleys via one of the pipe plugs where the cam galleys are drilled in the case. Hopefully the filter your using has a drainback valve. I have a can that I use for this purpose that I fill with oil that has a schrader valve welded to it so I can pressurize it with air. This can is attached via a hose to the pipe plug.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.

Last edited by rocketbob : 01-07-2012 at 08:05 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:25 PM
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vmirv8bldr vmirv8bldr is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastvale, CA
Posts: 378
Default Layman's terms?

Rocketbob, I value you're input, but am lost in the terminology. Can you "dumb this down" for me? Pictures?

Today I removed the oil temp sensor which I believe is positioned at the outlet of the filter. (I assumed this would effectively fill the filter.) I poured about a half quart (slowly) into this opening, until it quit draining. Still no pressure. I also raised the tail to level flight attitude which should run any oil in the filter out of the filter. I also disconnected the oil pressure hose from its sensor as Paul suggested.... nothing comes out when engaging the starter.

Tomorrow I will remove the filter itself and do as Pierre suggested.



Thanks,
Bart
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Eastvale, CA
RV-8 N74VB

Barrett IO-390
WW200RV
FLYING!!!!!!!
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:18 AM
Pat Stewart Pat Stewart is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 1,136
Default Oil Pressure

Are you using the vans oil pressure transducer and if so is it grounded.

Pat
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:15 AM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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First off a only newer oil filters have a drainback valve. This is basically a silicone flap in the filter that prevents oil from draining out when the engine is shut down. If you look at the holes in the filter and see rubber immediately inside your oil filter has a drainback valve in it. These are superior because at shutdown they close off the inlet side of the filter to keep oil in there so that when you start the engine up its not filling up with oil for a period of time. You get oil pressure sooner when starting. You want to fill the oil filter up directly.

Secondly there are two pipe plugs on either side of the crankshaft on the case at the front, next to the most forward pushrod bosses. These plugs cover the long holes drilled by the factory for oil passages. You can remove one of these plugs and with a garden sprayer with the wand cut off or a specific setup like I have, and connect the hose to a barbed fitting that you thread into one of those holes and pump oil into the engine under pressure.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.

Last edited by rocketbob : 01-08-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:04 PM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Default Pressure Pre-oiling

Check post #3 of this thread for how I pre-oiled my O-300. I have yet to work much on Lycs, but I would assume there is similar access to the oil system.
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  #16  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:19 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Default oil pressure

At this point I would head down to Auto Zone or whatever and get a cheap mechanical gage. Hook it directly to the oil pressure port and try again.
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  #17  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:09 PM
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vmirv8bldr vmirv8bldr is offline
 
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Default Oil in cooler

Well, after a big mess and still no pressure today, I got to thinking about the oil flow and where the pressure hose connects.

(FYI, I have disconnected the oil pressure hose from the transducer and am cranking to see oil coming from it before trying to read a pressure value, as was suggested by Paul.)

BTW, the filter I have on it now is the type with no valve, and it was full. The temperature probe port is at the outlfow of the filter, and my pouring about a half quart into it filled the filter.

What occurred to me was that the monster SW 10610R oil cooler I have mounted to the firewall, and all the hoses that connect to it are probably dry as a bone. Particularly since it appears that the oil pressure port is at the same location as the oil return line from the cooler. So even if everything works properly, the engine still has to fill the cooler and associated lines before any oil will show up in the pressure line.

After searching a bit online, I found the Lycoming pre-oil service instructions. http://www.lycoming.com/support/publ...fs/SI1241C.pdf which says how to do this. I must say though, that this instruction could have been written a little more clearly.

As per Rocketbob's suggestion, I will build a pre-oiler and pressure fill the galleys. I just built a similar thing to fill the brake lines and have scrap from that project I can use, just need to buy some more fittings and a ball valve or two.

I'm also calling Barrett in the morning.

I'll keep everyone posted.
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RV-8 N74VB

Barrett IO-390
WW200RV
FLYING!!!!!!!
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:11 PM
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vmirv8bldr vmirv8bldr is offline
 
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Default OIL!

I called the good folks at Barrett Precision Engines this AM to learn that Allen was already over half way finished reading this thread! He was very comforting and knowledgeable. He agreed I needed to fill the cooler, but also suggested I take the pressure reading off the port adjacent to the right mag and top right mount. (A cursory review of ALL the drawings show this from the beginning, but one drawing somewhat indicates the top left port...which is where I was plugged in.)

As per Allen's suggestion, I relocated the hose and plugged the top left port and filled the cooler. To avoid a mess, I learned quickly to pour about a tablespoon at a time into the lower hose.

Once that was full, I reconnected and torque the hoses and hand propped (plugs out) with the pressure hose hanging into an empty oil can. After each 25 rotations, I checked the hose for signs of oil.

First 25 - nothing
Second 25 - nothing
Third 25 - OIL!!!!!!

Then my phone rang and I had to focus on money MAKING efforts for a while.

I came back and reconnected the pressure hose after changing the fitting on the manifold, torqued it and hit the starter.

I followed the previous advice:
Starter for 30 seconds
wait 2 minutes
Starter for 30 seconds
wait 2 minutes
Starter for 30 seconds
Wait until starter has cooled completely
(This wait was not a problem, three 30-second runs on the starter (plugs out) will completely drain a PC680!) A&P at the field says rule of thumb is if the starter is too hot to touch, then it needs to cool. Mine got warm, but never hot.)

Still no indication of pressure on the instrument, but at least I do know oil is flowing. After speaking with an A&P with RV experience, this is not uncommon, and I should expect to run through as many as 15 or so 20-30 second starter cycles to see the pressure.

Tomorrow I will hook up the jumper cables to keep from having to wait the six hours required to recharge the 680!

Thanks for everyone's assistance.
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RV-8 N74VB

Barrett IO-390
WW200RV
FLYING!!!!!!!
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:00 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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I am confused. Are you now using a mechanical oil pressure gauge in addition to the panel mounted indicator? If so, still no indicated pressure?
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:19 AM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmirv8bldr View Post
After speaking with an A&P with RV experience, this is not uncommon, and I should expect to run through as many as 15 or so 20-30 second starter cycles to see the pressure.
This is flat out wrong and will cause bearing and/or crankshaft damage! Never have I overhauled an engine that the pressure didn't come up in 3-5 seconds after the first start.
__________________

Please don't PM me! Email only!

Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.

Last edited by rocketbob : 01-10-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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