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  #21  
Old 01-15-2021, 05:21 PM
N49ex N49ex is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenderbean View Post
Since this was something I was going to ask in my own thread I will ask here since its on topic. I was going to using something like the VPX in my build vs the traditional setup but then I saw the cost. The VPX kind of compares the cost of items it replaces but that doesnt add up to the 2100$ and 1500$ cost of the VPX Pro/VPX power system. My question is this, when you remove the fact it replaces some items and the time spent wiring does is this a worth while product?
Let's try this bit of math: Say you have 30 breakers. They are $36 at Aircraft Spruce, so that's $1080. And if you go the way Dan Horton suggested, it's much less yet. And what do you replace with a VPX in wiring? It seems to me you still have to run power wires from each load to somewhere - either the VPX or you breakers/fuses. The only extra with the fuses/breakers is busing the input power to them. And no hooking up a PC and "programing", no software to eventually reveal it's residue of bugs. Yes, if you add/reconfigure loads at some point, it may be more work with breakers or fuses, but I have also heard of folks running out of VPX outputs or outputs of the appropriate current capability too.

Last edited by N49ex : 01-15-2021 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Name mistake
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  #22  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:52 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,294
Default Just me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenderbean View Post
Since this was something I was going to ask in my own thread I will ask here since its on topic. I was going to using something like the VPX in my build vs the traditional setup but then I saw the cost. The VPX kind of compares the cost of items it replaces but that doesnt add up to the 2100$ and 1500$ cost of the VPX Pro/VPX power system. My question is this, when you remove the fact it replaces some items and the time spent wiring does is this a worth while product?
I dont plan on using the VPX. I prefer to just run wires, and I can better understand wires and lines on a schematic.

I bought a 12 position fuse block from West Marine and think this is going to work out great. In addition to the fuse bus bar, it also has a grounding bus bar. Really SWEET.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2021, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
Tail 98% done
Wings 98% done
Fuselage Kit 98% done
Finishing Kit 35% canopy done for now
Electrical 65% in work
Firewall Forward 5% in work
Fiberglass 0%, thought i was building in metal?
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com

Last edited by PilotjohnS : 01-15-2021 at 09:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2021, 05:09 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,776
Default fuses

One thing to keep in mind about fuses:

FAR 91.205 (c) (6) requires that a set of spare fuses, or three of each size fuse, be carried, accessible to the pilot in flight.

Presumably the fuse holder must also be accessible to the pilot in flight - it doesn't make much sense to be able to reach the spare fuses but not be able to install one.

91.205 (c) applies to VFR-Night operations by powered aircraft with Standard Airworthiness Certificate.

In the experimental world, you might think this does not apply, and it does not apply to VFR daytime operations. However, at least my E-AB Operating Limitations do say that for VFR-Night operations, my aircraft must comply with FAR 91.205 (c).

I have to confess that I am not sure I would be able to access my fuse holders in flight. I think I can touch the one that has the fuses for the nav lights, strobe lights and landing light, but I don't think I could look at it and determine which fuse to replace. It would take quite a bit of contortion.

Just something to think about.
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Steve Smith
Aeronautical Engineer
RV-8 N825RV
IO-360 A1A
WW 200RV
"The Magic Carpet" Flying since Sept. 2009
Hobbs 635
LS6-15/18W sailplane SOLD
bought my old LS6-A back!!
VAF donation Dec 2020
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:26 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post
FAR 91.205 (c) (6) requires that a set of spare fuses, or three of each size fuse, be carried, accessible to the pilot in flight

Just something to think about.
Ok, I thought about it. Done.

I can reach all of them, but I'm not changing any of them in flight, in particular at night. If it blew, it blew for a reason.
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Barrett IO-390

Last edited by DanH : 01-16-2021 at 06:30 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:55 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Ok, I thought about it. Done.

I can reach all of them, but I'm not changing any of them in flight, in particular at night. If it blew, it blew for a reason.
I agree. Especially something like lights. Not going to experience a mysterious transient and continue to function if a new fuse was installed.
__________________
Steve Smith
Aeronautical Engineer
RV-8 N825RV
IO-360 A1A
WW 200RV
"The Magic Carpet" Flying since Sept. 2009
Hobbs 635
LS6-15/18W sailplane SOLD
bought my old LS6-A back!!
VAF donation Dec 2020
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2021, 07:28 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,294
Default Just me

So for me, the essential things are on circuit breakers accessible in flight. The fuses are non essential that allow continued flight with that component lost, such as autopilot, cabin lights, taxi lights, etc. I dont plan on changing fuses in flight either.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2021, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
Tail 98% done
Wings 98% done
Fuselage Kit 98% done
Finishing Kit 35% canopy done for now
Electrical 65% in work
Firewall Forward 5% in work
Fiberglass 0%, thought i was building in metal?
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2021, 06:03 AM
bobnoffs bobnoffs is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: n. wi
Posts: 808
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cheer up, things could be worse. so i reset the trim breaker and sure enough, things got worse.
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Bob Noffs
n. wi.
dakota hawk/jab 3300 built and flying. sold 6/18.getting serious about the 12. in the hangar now as of 10/15/19
RV-12 kit as of 9/13
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2021, 08:40 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,525
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Go with Dan's suggestion!

The method of using a breaker/switch to control a sub panel (fuse block) is an excellent way to go. I have had a trouble free installation on my RV-10 for the last 10 years.

A 10 amp breaker/switch on my panel labeled Avionics, turns on a sub panel to which avionics of your choice are connected via blade fuses. The fuses are not accessible in flight and as has been said, if one of those blows, it will stay that way until I get on the ground. (None has ever blown in 700 hours of flying.)

If I need to unload electrical draw for whatever reason, I can either turn the individual equipment off or simply turn "avionics" off.

Simply put, you can install several breaker/ switches on the panel and install the blade fuse box anywhere for convenient electrical hook ups.

Modern electronics and sensors often need only 1 amp wire/fuse capacity but there are many of them and your valuable panel space need not be cluttered with these breakers or fuses.
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Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 700 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
Don't believe everything you know.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2021, 12:42 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,294
Default Just me

So after this wonderful discussion, i am planning my circuit breakers to be:
PFD
MFD
Comm 1
Comm 2
Nav (VOR) (GNX 375)
Transponder/GPS (GNX 375)
G5 (back up attitude)
Audio Panel
Gad 29 dig converter (required for transponder)
GMU 11 (Magnetometer)
GAD 27 (Airframe data interface)
GEA 24 (Engine Data Interface)
GSU 25 (AHRS)
XM rcvr (gotta have music or there is no reason to fly; happy wife, happy life)
Alternator Field
Bus (Voltage sense for alternator)
Hobbs / low volt warning ( may be removed if panel layout looks funky)
Flaps
fuel pump
Pitot heat
Trim
Spare 1
Spare 2

Fuses will be:
Landing light left
Landing light right
Taxi lights
Strobe
Nav Lights
Panel lights
AP power
Defrost fans
Gad 27 keep alive power (only needed for engine start)
USB power
Test power input
Option 1 (CO detector??)

Fusible links will be
Bat current sense 1 (Engine side of firewall)
Bat current sense 2 (Engine side of firewall)
cabin lights (Engine side of firewall)
Starter (Engine side of firewall)

ANL fuses will be
Alternator
Main bus feed thru firewall

the reason for the shunt to be configured to measure battery charge and discharge is because I want to know if alternator is putting out enough power to supply load. I am using a pad mounted alternator as primary.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion.
I reserve the right to change my mind over and over and over.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2021, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
Tail 98% done
Wings 98% done
Fuselage Kit 98% done
Finishing Kit 35% canopy done for now
Electrical 65% in work
Firewall Forward 5% in work
Fiberglass 0%, thought i was building in metal?
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com

Last edited by PilotjohnS : 01-17-2021 at 01:04 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2021, 07:09 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,525
Default

This is not how I would do it.
Maybe you misunderstood?

Your lights need to be switchable and you might as well use a braker/switch on the panel so you can turn them on and off when you need them.
Flaps and fuel pump need a breaker and a switch on the panel as well.
Alternator Field too, 5 amp breaker switch.

(10 amp) breaker switch on the panel labeled avionics:
to energize a fuse block behind the panel
fuse:Comm 1
fuse: Comm 2
fuse: Nav (VOR) (GNX 375)
fuse: Transponder/GPS (GNX 375)
fuse: G5 (back up attitude)
Gad 29 dig converter (required for transponder)
fuse: audio panel ect.

( 10 amp) breaker/ switch labeled Instruments
to energize another fuse block behind the panel
fuse : your PFD etc.
you'll need a number of fuses to hook up all the items that light up and make
your PFD and MFD work, most drawing less than an amp.

10 amp breaker only for the items you want to come on as soon as you turn the master on. This can be one or two breakers, pullable if you choose and can be labeled simply Instrument1, Instrument2 etc. :

GMU 11 (Magnetometer)
GAD 27 (Airframe data interface)
GEA 24 (Engine Data Interface)
GSU 25 (AHRS)
XM rcvr (gotta have music or there is no reason to fly; happy wife, happy life)
Alternator Field
Bus (Voltage sense for alternator)
Hobbs / lo

Maybe someone with avionics and panel expertise will draw up a schematic for you.
How you arrange it is up to you, hope that helps
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 700 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
Don't believe everything you know.
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