Personal IFR limits?

[woodmanrog]

Always trust your gut.

[BobCollins(AA)]

Originally Posted by JPalese

After 17000 hours I can tell you 3 rules I use to keep me out of trouble:

1) When in doubt, do NOT do. (Listen to your spidey sense)

2) It is much more difficult to decide NO than it is to try it.

3) What is your answer to the question, "What am I going to do if _____"?
If you don't have an adequate answer to that question it is better to quote Confucius . . .

"Better to be on ground wishing in flight, than in flight wishing on ground."

I agree with John, I am also a retired Captain with AmericanAirlines and if you have to ask if you should or not than you should not.

FlySafe

[terrye]

I'm not an IFR pilot yet, but slowly developing the knowledge and skills to become one. The best source I've found on how to fly weather is "Weather Flying" now in it's Fifth Edition by Robert N. Buck and his son Robert O. Buck. Both were airline pilots, and Robert N. Buck started in DC-2s, flew weather research aircraft during and after WW II. It discusses what weather is and how to fly it from a pilot's perspective. More important, it tells the beginner IFR pilot how to start flying IFR. I got my copy used for less tan $15. Worth 10x that.

[jrs14855]

Originally Posted by terrye

I'm not an IFR pilot yet, but slowly developing the knowledge and skills to become one. The best source I've found on how to fly weather is "Weather Flying" now in it's Fifth Edition by Robert N. Buck and his son Robert O. Buck. Both were airline pilots, and Robert N. Buck started in DC-2s, flew weather research aircraft during and after WW II. It discusses what weather is and how to fly it from a pilot's perspective. More important, it tells the beginner IFR pilot how to start flying IFR. I got my copy used for less tan $15. Worth 10x that.

Bob Buck taught himself to fly instruments in a Pitcairn Mailwing with only a turn and bank. On his first actual instrument flight he climbed into the cloud and flew cross country to an area where the weather was better.
This is documented in Bucks last book, North Star Over My Shoulder, one of my all time favorite books.
I wonder how many of todays pilots could survive for even five minutes with just a turn and bank, airspeed and altimeter??

[David-aviator]

Originally Posted by BobCollins(AA)

I agree with John, I am also a retired Captain with AmericanAirlines and if you have to ask if you should or not than you should not.

FlySafe

Bob, in all fairness to Pierre, it is was a tough choice using his own judgement.
The airline pilot does not usually have to make such decisions because the entire operation is cut and dried by company policy. You either go or don't go based on policy.
Pierre made a decision without benefit of an all mighty policy for guidance - and it was a good choice.

[JPalese]

Originally Posted by David-aviator

Bob, in all fairness to Pierre, it is was a tough choice using his own judgement.
The airline pilot does not usually have to make such decisions because the entire operation is cut and dried by company policy. You either go or don't go based on policy.
Pierre made a decision without benefit of an all mighty policy for guidance - and it was a good choice.

While company policy and procedures must be followed - as they have the same weight as the FARs - the Captain is THE BOTTOM LINE.

I hate to tell you that you are dreaming if you believe our decisions are made by policy and procedure. They are made by pilots doing the best they can with what they have; based on their training and experience.

The airline Captain makes such decisions on a near constant basis.

See FAR 91.3(a) if you need further amplification.

Outstanding job Pierre.

[Jaypratt]

Never been a professional pilot. IFR for me is a lot of work. It cuts into the fun factor by a bunch.
I have not had an IFR airplane for about 20 years and rarely have wished I was IFR currant. So it is VFR for me all the time.

[Turbofan]

I'm an airline guy 737 captain too but flew checks in barons and commuter passenger turboprops....the more I know, the more it scares me to fly single engine IFR. Single engine is an emergency in the airlines, let alone flying raw data approaches or even coupled approaches to minimums in a dinky spam can with no real fuel reserves and no real speed to get to good weather. You're kidding yourself thinking any different.
One alternator, one fan up front, one battery, again you're kidding yourself...and departing zero zero...crazy...where are you gonna go with a problem? I did it when I was young and stupid, but dont consider anything IFR except punching through a 2000 ft ceiling to vrf on top in warm air...there's no outs with anything less unless your on an all weather legitimate twin or turboprop certified all weather and known ice with redundancies and plenty of fuel and a trained pilot flying 4 days a week that can land zero zero on an ILS TIL the wheels touch the ground if things sock in or the weather goes down....unless that's you, you've got no business.

[jpowell13]

I'm trying to gain confidence in myself and my plane. With just 25hrs actual IFR and most of it years ago I don't depart with less than 600', a VFR destination and VFR within 1 hour of my departure point. I'm current by the rules, but really need to start spending time in the system. I'm going to start filing IFR on clear days and fly the RNAV approaches. XM weather is a huge benefit over the "old days" by the way. There's nothing like flying into the edge of an imbeded thunderstorm to wake you up. So, I don't want to see a lot of yellow or worse on the GPS and no ice. John

[David-aviator]

Originally Posted by JPalese

While company policy and procedures must be followed - as they have the same weight as the FARs - the Captain is THE BOTTOM LINE.

I hate to tell you that you are dreaming if you believe our decisions are made by policy and procedure. They are made by pilots doing the best they can with what they have; based on their training and experience.

The airline Captain makes such decisions on a near constant basis.

See FAR 91.3(a) if you need further amplification.

Outstanding job Pierre.

True, the Captain is the bottom line. But the line is always on thin ice.

If company policy or an FAR are ignored while exercising command authority, there better be a good reason for doing so or the pilot will be unemployed. At least those were the rules when I worked for a living.

Policy was don't fly through thunderstorms, so don't do it. Decision made for you. With regard to IFR flight conditions, you were either legal to proceed or not, it was a no brainer.

Yes, there were decisions on every flight, like make sure the FAA check air man got coffee and a meal first. Beyond that, if the flight was operated in accordance with policy and FAR's, the operation was not a big deal and took no heroics. Policy and FAR were decision makers 98% of the time. When the situation was not covered by same, the Captain decided what action to take, that's what he got paid to do - like land in the Hudson River with no power.

But if the Captain decides to bust minimums with no emergency, his butt will be hung out to dry. The decision to go around is mandated by policy and FAR's not his judgment or decision making authority.

My point was Pierre did not have the benefit of an operation so well defined. He made a good decision without all that help.