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Old 09-19-2018, 12:39 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,885
Default Nope

I have a friend in South Georgia, also a crop duster and owns a Cirrus. He said, "There's no way in h*** I'd pull the 'chute because you have no control over where it lands."
I'm riding it down under MY control, he said.

Rv10 Sold
46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
Building RV-12, Wings, fuse, emp complete. FWF in progress.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:14 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,280

Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
I was thinking about structural failure for exampleor flying over forests/water and when you intend to fly with your 5 years old child (because he?s so in love with airplanes), being a good pilot or having the best airplane, is never enough to feel and to keep him safe- let?s try to find out if we can improve a project which is already amazing.
I'll offer my thoughts and then shut up and go away...

The only conditions under which I can imagine an in-flight structural failure of an RV-12 would be in the case of extremely poor construction or maintenance, or flight into conditions where stresses exceeding the airplane's capability might be encountered. Any of those are well within the pilot's control. If you're really worried about engine failures, don't fly over large stretches of open water or dense forest. So... being a good pilot and having a good airplane can indeed be enough to keep you safe. If you still don't feel safe... will a BRS really help? How do you know for certain it will actually work as intended? Who's going to test it? Are you "fixing" one risk, just to add a few more?

As for "improving" the RV-12, I can think of a few ways to do that. Hanging a bunch of weight a couple feet aft of CG, adding more external drag, and cutting holes in the fuselage are not among them.

I guess it's a matter of personal choice and priorities. Good luck with your project.

Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:20 PM
Bogdan Bogdan is offline
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 9

Thank you Dale, I really appreciate what you said, and now, I tend to think that you?re right. Probably I was looking for perfection or reassurance. I agree with both, sometimes a BRS could be life saver, sometimes is better to trust your skills and to build a good airplane. Your answer is more than common sense and I appreciate. Thank you 👍✈️
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:03 PM
cczarnik cczarnik is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 122

I've installed a BRS in another experimental aircraft model. Open cockpit wood and fabric airplane- wasn't a huge deal for that application.

Keep in mind that the rocket must not only punch through the canopy, it must also pull the chute and bridle through as well. Without ripping it to shreds. I can't imagine all that activity going off right behind my head, in an unusual attitude / structural failure situation right next to a fuel tank. There are several Youtubes of BRS rockets being test fired, you be the judge.

If you're serious about engineering something, I'd suggest a remote rocket install somewhere behind a fabric breakaway panel, bridle to the chute that is stored somewhere else to preserve CG. But you're going to have external bridles, which is what I've seen on the few BRS-equipped RV's, somehow bonded externally to the skin (under fabric?) so that they unzip with a deploy.

Not an elegant solution at all. I'd vote for a good canopy jettison strategy and backpack chutes.
7a emp complete, wings underway
VAF Dues paid - 2018
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:07 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 2,228

"Tommy123, I think you might find it impossible to jump out considering the RV-12’s tilt up canopy."

Not impossible... other Van's model aircraft have tip-up canopy that is jettisonable. I like the part "If you’re terrified of jumping out, you will change your mind when facing certain death."
Jim Stricker
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 633

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:58 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,370
Default still want to jump??

Someone posted that they are looking forward to flying with their 5-year-old son.........
Sam Buchanan
Fokker D.VII replica
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:47 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
Posts: 1,674

Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
I have a friend in South Georgia, also a crop duster and owns a Cirrus. He said, "There's no way in h*** I'd pull the 'chute because you have no control over where it lands."
I'm riding it down under MY control, he said.

I have been wondering if you were ok? Been awhile since I have read your wisdom.
Wag Aero Sport Trainer built,sold and wrecked
N588DF RV12 #336 built, sold and alive and well in New York
N73DF RV12 #244 built, sold and alive and well in Florida
N91 RV RV9 I wish I could say I built this one! Mark Santoleri hit the ball out of the park on this gem.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:51 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,457

I have never felt the need for a BRS, (partly because if the airplane isn’t designed for it, you are building an untested compromise, and partly because there is a limited corner of the risk box where it is the only answer to staying alive) but I am not morally opposed to them. In fact, my new project WAS designed for it, and while it is an option, I decided to go for it, because the cockpit is small enough that a personal parachute really isn't a viable option.

What I find interesting is that I actually feel good about knowing that it will be there.
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)

Last edited by Ironflight : 09-19-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:05 PM
larosta larosta is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 180

"WAS designed for it"

that makes a big difference in the implementation, if VANS ever elected to design in a BRS as an option I am sure that it would be done right and that many potential builders would consider that option. I also suspect that most builders are comfortable with and have the training to stay away from the coffin corners of the flight envelope and are able to assess the risk associated with flying where options are few for getting the aircraft on the ground in the event of an engine problem.

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Old 09-19-2018, 10:21 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,914

I have noticed that I can?t rotate my canopy latch on landing roll out until I slow down to less than 20 knots. I think it?s due to lifting forces on the canopy, and it makes me wonder if you could even unlatch the canopy in flight let alone open it and jump. ?- Nope, I?m not confirming that with a flight test!
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