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  #1  
Old 06-01-2021, 08:14 PM
mags591 mags591 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Bowie, MD
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Alright, what is the Max takeoff weight you have ever left the ramp with? I know they say 1320 but Iím sure this plane is plenty capable of more. Many other kit planes that are eligible For LSA allow an EAB to be higher weight, but vans doesnít. Has anyone upped the Max weight of your aircraft?
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2021, 09:18 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Many (maybe most) of the aircraft you are describing were originally designed to a higher gross weight.
The RV-12 specifically was designed to 1320 lbs. That allowed for optimizing the design of structure, etc., to that weight which then in turn provides for as light of an empty weight as possible. Which means better useful load at LSA weight limits (of which the RV-12 is a leader in the industry).

Hopefully that makes it clear that flying an RV-12 at weights above 1320 lbs is not a very good idea.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2021, 10:27 PM
12vaitor 12vaitor is offline
 
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Location: Panama City, FL
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I agree with Scott's assessment. I am not sure what the fascination is with pushing the RV-12's speed and gross weight up beyond the baseline design requirement for LSA compliance. If your mission profile requires a higher gross weight or faster speed than the LSA limits, Van's does make the RV-9 which fits nicely above the LSA slot. I operate my EAB RV-12 (non-Rotax engine and IFR panel) within the airframe design limits, although I do occasionally push it near the VNE limit during descents.

I am sure there are those that operate RV-12s in the designer's reserve margin, and Van's has a history of not condoning such operation on any of the RV models.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
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  #4  
Old 06-02-2021, 01:02 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12vaitor View Post
I operate my EAB RV-12 (non-Rotax engine and IFR panel) within the airframe design limits, although I do occasionally push it near the VNE limit during descents.
Itís important to remember that VNE is a function of TAS and not IAS. At altitude, TAS is higher leaving VNE with less margin. If you rely on IAS then VNE can easily be exceeded sometimes with a very bad result.
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 670

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2021, 10:52 AM
12vaitor 12vaitor is offline
 
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Good comment on VNE. On the Dynon Skyview you can set the Air Speed Limitations page to use TAS for the VNE speed and it will adjust the red VNE color segment on the IAS tape automatically to the corrected IAS VNE.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2021, 01:13 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12vaitor View Post
Good comment on VNE. On the Dynon Skyview you can set the Air Speed Limitations page to use TAS for the VNE speed and it will adjust the red VNE color segment on the IAS tape automatically to the corrected IAS VNE.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
Correct
And if you use the settings files available from Van's Aircraft it configures it for you... no need to do anything.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2021, 02:08 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Correct
And if you use the settings files available from Van's Aircraft it configures it for you... no need to do anything.
Is that the case also with vintage D-180?
__________________
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 670

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2021, 03:18 PM
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rtlongdon rtlongdon is offline
 
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Location: Stanwood, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
Itís important to remember that VNE is a function of TAS and not IAS. At altitude, TAS is higher leaving VNE with less margin. If you rely on IAS then VNE can easily be exceeded sometimes with a very bad result.
Usually VNE at TAS comes into play at higher altitudes. In fact, my RV-12 POH calls out Vne as 136 KIAS below 16,000 feet, else 136 KTAS. Did this vary amongst model years/POH's?

Probably meat for another thread (or one that has already been beat up on). My only intent was to clarify based on what my POH calls out.

Cheers!
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RV-12 N712WE (KAWO, purchased completed)
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2021, 05:42 PM
mags591 mags591 is offline
 
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Location: Bowie, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12vaitor View Post
I agree with Scott's assessment. I am not sure what the fascination is with pushing the RV-12's speed and gross weight up beyond the baseline design requirement for LSA compliance. If your mission profile requires a higher gross weight or faster speed than the LSA limits, Van's does make the RV-9 which fits nicely above the LSA slot. I operate my EAB RV-12 (non-Rotax engine and IFR panel) within the airframe design limits, although I do occasionally push it near the VNE limit during descents.

I am sure there are those that operate RV-12s in the designer's reserve margin, and Van's has a history of not condoning such operation on any of the RV models.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
See I was more so interested because I am just starting my build, and I know there has been a lot of talk about the FAA changing the LSA regulations to allow more speed and weight, and I was curious if that changes, would the -12 be capable of an increased weight / speed.
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:07 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,068
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I have had students ask me what if I do this or that bending the rules. My standard answer is, ďI donít know. Do you feel like being a test pilot? If you donít know the outcome you are a test pilot.Ē
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